Great Pods
Woody Allen | Club Random

Key Points

Woody Allen discusses his perspective on life, believing it's tragic and painful, requiring illusions and distractions to cope
He expresses admiration for the quote "A life with illusions is unpardonable and a life without illusions is unbearable"
Allen admits to being chronically unhappy, dissatisfied, and misanthropic despite having loving parents and a good childhood
He describes his approach to filmmaking as careless and non-perfectionist, preferring not to take work home or over-plan
Allen reveals he's never read classic books like Great Expectations, Ulysses, 1984, or Catch-22, preferring shorter works
He believes he's never made a "great" movie despite creating 50 films, comparing his work to classics like Rashomon and The Seventh Seal
Allen discusses his influence from Bob Hope and other comedians, openly admitting to "stealing" comedic techniques and personas
He expresses disillusionment with the justice system after experiencing legal investigations and finding perjury commonplace
Allen describes being "cancelled" by Hollywood colleagues during the #MeToo era, though he claims it didn't hurt him practically due to his age and financial security
He maintains his innocence regarding allegations and views the actors who denounced him as simply making mistakes rather than being malicious
Allen prefers movies to be shown in theaters rather than streaming, feeling the communal experience is essential to cinema
He has been married to Soon-Yi for about 30 years and describes it as an idyllic relationship where they eat every meal together
Allen reveals he's written a novel called "What's with Bound?" set to be published in September
He discusses his atheism and envy of people who have religious faith, seeing it as a "gift" he wasn't blessed with
Allen expresses his obsession with mortality and the universe's eventual end, despite knowing it won't happen in his lifetime
He describes his therapy experiences as only marginally helpful, never having breakthrough moments or emotional releases
Allen discusses directing Donald Trump in "Celebrity," describing him as professional, polite, and having natural showbusiness flair
He advocates for distinguishing between the valuable aspects of the #MeToo movement and the harmful nature of cancel culture
Full Transcript

Language: en
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Pessimistic view that I'm going to die.
It's not so pessimistic,
you know. It's pro probably going to
happen. Okay.
I could direct him now if he would let
me if he if he would let me direct him
now that he's president.
I have returned like MacArthur
to find a great man. A great man is in
my home.
How are you?
I'm okay. Everybody's been so nice to
What did you expect?
Oh, no. Let me let me vomit my love for
you right away. Get it off the table.
You know, from the beginning with the
standup through the early movies, the
middle movies, the late movies, the New
Yorker pieces, the book.
Were you part of the New York comics
group, The Bitter End, or the any of
those places that?
No, I was five when that was happening.
I I I mean, I started in the 80s. It was
it was the improv, the
Catch a Rising Star. Do you remember
that place
in New York though? You were
Yeah. Yeah.
Are you from New York?
New Jersey.
Ah, okay. So you So you played those
same clubs in Manhattan that uh
Yeah, that was my my era was was you
know the com the improv down on 44th and
9th that started in like ' 62. That was
the earliest one. That was the
granddaddy of them all. But by the 80s
um it had become a thing and by the late
'80s it was uh a phenomenon. Midsize
cities had five comedy clubs,
You know, and it would just burnt itself
out after a while. It wasn't like I mean
when you started it was just the bitter
that was there was a few clubs and only
a few comics. When you started there was
like maybe one new comic every few
years. I when I was doing it in the 80s
like the dentists were doing copy,
right? It was just terrible,
Did you play Dangerfields?
Uh I lived nearby it in a in someone's
closet basically. Uh I lived in the
maid's room. Yeah. I had a rentree
situation. Don't even ask. But um
yeah, uh Danger Fields, I didn't play it
because that was uh I was too new and
that was a headliner club. I wasn't a
headliner yet. Um,
so when you came out here, did you play
the trouidor?
No, that was I don't remember comics
ever playing the troubador. I remember
comics getting in trouble for being in
the audience at the Trouador. I don't
know. That was like Oh, you know, maybe
the Smothers Brothers did play that.
Yeah, I think I I think I played the
Okay. Well, back then there. Now it's
just music. I think
I've never heard of a comic at the
but I played that other place on in
Hollywood. It was had an upstairs and a
downstairs.
What year?
Uh the year that the that Kennedy was
assassinated
because I was I was playing there when
the day that Kennedy was assassinated.
uh, like when you won your Oscar, you
had the same reaction
as you did when Kennedy was
assassinated.
I thought about it for a minute and then
I went back to work.
Yes, that's exact. I was writing the
script of what's new Pussycat. I was in
the a motel like the Gene Autry Motel
and and I was playing the place. The
was upstairs or the crescendo was
downstairs and there was a place
But why don't these things affect you
more? They're to most people they're
earth shaking.
I was too stupid to grasp what happened.
I I
was there and someone said it was the
operator on the phone and she said, "Oh,
Mr. Allen, the president's been shot."
And I said, "Oh, yeah." And I turned on
the television. I looked for a minute or
two, realized I couldn't do anything
about it. And then, you know, and now
Well, that is true. But, okay, let me
challenge you on this. You say in this
book, you have no lofty thoughts.
I have no what?
And you say, "I have no lofty thoughts."
No. Right.
But you can't really believe that. No, I
don't have any love. I'm I've often said
I'm mistaken for an intellectual one.
This is what I have to challenge because
answer me this then. If you have no
lofty thoughts, how why didn't you just
keep making the silly kind of movies you
made at the beginning that were just
gags? I agree you there are no lofty
thoughts in Bananas.
There's no lofty thoughts in Take the
Money and Run. But then you did
interiors and movies that were like
almost all lofty thoughts.
But I was riddled with ambition to be a
serious filmmaker. But but I had nothing
to contribute in terms of insights or or
you know why that is because there are
no lofty thoughts. No. No. There's one
there's one lofty thought. I think
you have it.
you do too. It's your theme, too. It's
the quote I always think that
encapsulates it. I think it's from
Eugene O'Neal, but maybe not. Or maybe
somebody talking about Eugene O'Neal, or
it could be Zubie's sales, I don't
remember. But the quote is a great
quote. A life with illusions is
unpardonable and a life without
illusions is unbearable.
Yes, I agree with that.
That's a big theme of yours. It's a big
thing because you you do have to
uh you know you've got to delude
yourself to get through. It's a life is
a terrible, painful, awful, tragic thing
and you've got to I my solution to it
was the coward's way out to distract
yourself. There are people that um
embrace life and they're they're and
they confront it and they have all kinds
of mature uh you know perspectives on
it. But I don't I to me it's I avoid it.
I watch baseball. I watch sports. I
watch movies.
That's that's that's not relevant. In
the movies themselves there are lofty
thoughts or at least again
maybe this
and I've heard them somewhere.
Yeah, you know,
right? Well, we all have and then we
confront them in our own life and that's
really the the one I see over and over
again about illusions and there's only
so many ways to say that and everything
is just to me a variation if it's lofty
on that theme said in an entertaining
way. You say it in an entertaining way.
You're a very entertaining fellow.
So, how do you deal with this? I mean,
do do you do you are you conscious that
you are deluding yourself or do you want
to delude yourself or
But isn't that the theme you're that
again you and and all of us to a degree
are exploring is like it's the
dichotomy. It's the paradox we will
never figure out.
You know, you'll never figure out
that's why the quote is good. A life
with them is bad and a life without them
is bad in a different way.
Yeah. So all you can do is kind of push
it out of your mind and you know
distract yourself.
You know the novelist John Irving he
wrote world
I know of him. I books.
Me neither. Okay.
But I see all his Robin Williams movies.
Um he said uh every great novel would
have better been called Great
Expectations.
He said every novelist wishes that title
was still available because life great
expectations
you know.
Yes. But whenever you sit down to write
a novel or to to make a movie or to
embark on some kind of artistic thing,
you always or at least I always expect
that it's going to be great. I always,
you know, when I sit down to make a
movie, I think I'm going to make Citizen
Cane and this when people see this,
they'll be stunned. And then when I
finish shooting it, I'm in the editing
room. I'm praying that I won't be
embarrassed and I'm I'm ready. I'll
change anything. I'll put the end in the
beginning. I'll I'll put narration into
it. I'll do anything. And all your great
expectations go out the window when you
I mean I was talking more about the
character's great expectations.
Yours I I mean I I I get that that
that's any what any filmmaker does. I
think what you did early in your career
was set down this marker that I can't be
embarrassed because I'm an artist. I'm
going to fail sometimes and that's
what's going to make you like me more. I
think that's what what you did possibly
by choice. It's just how you followed
that that idea. You're not you're not
going to
uh let anybody tell you what to do, how
to do it. You are either gody in your
right? That's true. You have to do it
yourself because it doesn't work any
other way, but you have to accept the
fact that you're going to fail a certain
amount of times. Yeah.
The problem is if you're in an art form,
if you're a writer at home and you fail,
you throw the paper away and you start
over. If you're a filmmaker, you have to
constantly raise 15, 20, $30 million or
something. And then it if you're an
architect or a filmmaker, you've got to
raise a fortune to apply your your
trade. And so it gets dicey. You you
can't afford, you know, you you're
resigned to the fact that you will fail,
but you can't afford to fail too much
because then they you can't get any more
Yeah. I I read in the book that you
you're talking about going to therapy
and said something like you're waiting
for the good that never comes.
Yes. That that's when I when I started
this to me is great expectations.
Yeah. you know, everything is just
you wait,
which I know you've never read because
you say also uh in your uh unconvincing
defense of how you're not an
intellectual,
you say uh you know that you never read
Great Expectations, you never read
Ulyses, you never read 1984, Catch 22,
Donkey Hod, you mentioned
That's right. I've never read any of the
ones you've just mentioned.
I've read them all. You want to get the
skinny on them? Uh
you want to you want to get the
Yeah, you can can you condense it
well like Dickens 1850
I mean for the time but it's very it's
asking a lot of 1850 to be relevant
today and also he was writing them on
installment you know Dickens they would
be knocking on the door because it had
to go in the paper that's how that book
was written you know
that's how dusty wrote too for the money
and and bit by bit and you know but I I
never had the patience to read any of
them. I was never a reader. I never
enjoyed reading as a kid. I it was not
something I like to do. And to this day,
I don't enjoy it. I've done it a certain
amount because you needed to do it to
survive and to to flourish as a writer,
but it's nothing.
I bet you you'd like Catch 22. The other
I might. I read Catcher in the Ry and I
like that. short.
I like I thought that was
It's good when they're short.
That was Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, you also say I I thought this
was crazy. It was on the last page that
your big regret is you never You say you
think you never made a great movie.
That's right. I think I've made
Remember, I've made 50 movies. I wrote
and directed 50 movies. Some of them I
do think are good.
more more than half of them are not but
I do think some of them are good but I
never made if you think a great movie is
Rashiman or the bicycle thief or the
seventh seal or
see I've never seen those just like
you've never read the books
now why haven't you seen those
because because like because I'm just
the young man in the 22nd row I I like
these artouse movies that you like that
I mean you're right I haven't tested
them enough
you'd enjoy them though. But the the
thing about them is they're not
homework. They're entertaining. They're
actually gripping and entertaining.
But I've heard people say that about
other things that did not grip or
entertain me. Again,
that's interesting.
Yeah. But like, okay, I usually prepare
nothing for this show. I think that's
But I did want to ask you about movies
because you
your taste in movies. Like I would not
want to know if you've seen any of these
movies. Like these are not the art house
foreign director movies. These are like
the ones that the common people love,
but you know they're big. Like
Godfather, you see
I saw the Godfather 2 I thought was
great. The period work
I thought it was absolutely great. The
the period work in Godfather 2 I I did
think was great.
Other than that, not really much.
Well Well, no. I mean I I thought they
were good pictures definitely but but
the period work in in Godfather 2 was
great film making.
Did you see Nora?
No I haven't but but uh my wife Sunni
saw it and loved it. I have not seen it.
You had no interest.
with a heart I have marginal interest
but no and and and that doesn't reflect
on the film. It reflects on my own, you
know, smallness.
I mean, I, you know,
doesn't make you small. I'm sure
I reject that theory that people are
small because they don't like a certain
thing. You could, you're entitled to
like it. I know. But you're we're all
entitled to to enjoy what we want and
our enjoy our lives the way.
But I might enjoy that, but I don't give
You don't have to apologize for not
watching, Nora. And I don't have to
apologize for not watching The Bicycle
Yeah. It's not that I didn't like it. I
did I I just haven't seen it. I I might
And that's okay. It's okay.
And it's okay. I don't watch the bicycle
thief. I although you're
I can't figure out why though because
what's it about?
I bicycle is stolen and the picture is
trying to retrieve it and it's very
crucial for
Are you sure this is not PeeWee's big
adventure? Cuz I think that's the same
I didn't see that. I know. I knew that
Okay. Um, James Bond movies. You
No, I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of
But you wrote one that was a James Bond
No, I never No.
Oh, you acted in that.
I had a small acting party.
Casino Royale, right?
I was in it. Yeah. It was a moronic
enterprise. Uh, and I was in it in in in
a small way. I was just starting out and
at that point in my life I had to do
anything in film to get a foothold and
so I was advised to be in it when they
offered it to me. But uh none I I saw
the first James Bond film and it was
fine but I was never moved to see
another one. I'm I'm not a not it
doesn't interest me.
Well, if you do I would not start with
Roger Moore
anyway. Hello and the lovely gentleman.
Uh, okay. Uh, what? Lawrence of Arabia.
Lawrence of Arabia.
You know, again, it's impressive film
making, but there was a lot in it that I
I didn't think it was
I don't get it.
I didn't think it was
I I don't I mean, like, what is it
about? I I it's so lauded and yet I have
watched it a couple of times and I'm
well the the film making is is
impressive
you know technically impressive. I
thought a lot of the acting in it was
I mean I did I you know and I went to I
went to like it because you know I had
heard so many wonderful things about it.
And look, I mean, I when I I criticize
these things, I couldn't make a film
that impressive if I tried my whole
life. I'm just talking
You You did not work on that scale.
I couldn't I
Right. It's not your choice. It's just
not your style.
I wouldn't be able to. I don't have the
So what? You had this other ability that
they don't have. Uh The Graduate.
The Graduate I liked. I saw it years
after it came out and I liked it. You
know, again, I I didn't think it was a
great movie, but I but I liked it and I
the people in it were wonderful
and and uh
so I guess I should just forget about
Which one?
Twilight. I bet you your kids have seen
it about vampires in the high school.
No, I don't know it. I don't know it.
I know. Um
Sunset Boulevard. Sunset Boulevard is
what my wife would call and I would
agree with her fun junk.
It's, you know, it's it's great fun, but
it, you know, it's a junky and silly
movie, but it
no lofty thoughts,
but but it's fun.
Okay. But there we're back to lofty
I know. I know. The one you love is
Street Car.
Street Car I love. Yes. I think it's
just it's a perfect work of art. A great
great play. Every line in it is superb.
Every choice in it is superb. They they
they lucked out in every way. They had a
great director at the height of his
powers. They had Marlon Brando at the
height of his powers. I mean, it was
just superb in every way. But you also
said in the book you relate to Blanch
that you that's that's who you are.
Yes. And and that's going with what you
were saying before uh you know I I
don't want realism. I want magic and and
magic has appeared in many of my films.
And I think there's no way out of this
terrible mess that we're all in without
some kind of magical solution. If
without that nothing's going to happen.
See, I would say that Purple Rose of
Cairo might be a great movie because
uh the ending of it,
it it's you're rooting for this uh happy
ending that would please your heart,
shall we say, but it has a better
ending. It's the right ending.
It's the right ending.
It's the right ending. And that's why
it's a brave choice which what maybe
makes it a great movie because
well it's been out 30 years. Can I tell
it's one of my it's one of my better
movies. I wouldn't call it great but it
is one of my better movies and they did
pressure me to change the ending. They
they had gone up to Boston to screen it
describe describe the plot. And I know
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Yeah, I think
that's you because the plot is that
she's in a desperate horrible depression
life, bad husband, the poverty, the
whole thing. And so she goes to the
movies and gets lost in the wonderful
as as most of America did in those
Right. Right.
So the character Jeff Daniels, handsome
leading man, he comes off the screen.
Now, of course, this is under the
category of buy the premise, by the bit.
You got to buy the premise and then you
run with the bit. So the character comes
off the screen,
Okay. So, and then romance is her. I
mean, legitimately they fall in love and
then the actor,
The real actor, the real guy is pissed
off because this guy came off the screen
and now he's like stealing his thunder.
There can't be two of them running
right? He's hurting him,
right? So he comes to town to try to get
that guy the the act the one who came
off the screen to go back up on the
So he then he romances Mia Faroh
and she she falls for him and now she
has to make a choice between the guy who
came off the screen, Jeff Daniels, and
the real actor. And the guy who came off
the screen, you know, he's a little more
true and honest, but the other guy, he's
real. So she, you know, as an audience
member, you're like, "Okay, this is
great. She's going to get everything she
wants. She's going to get this great
guy, and now he's human. So they have a
future together, but it means the other
guy has to go back up on the screen." So
she does that. She picks the real guy.
The other guy goes back up on the
screen. And then she's like, he said,
"We're going to the real one's going to
take her back to Hollywood." And she's
at the train station and or whatever.
And of course he didn't show up. Of
course, he was just using her. Your
heart wanted them to like have this
fairy tale ending. But no,
but that's what ambitious actors do.
Yes. But you remember this,
the capsule,
excuse me, the capsule
meaning of the film is that we are all,
in my opinion, forced to choose
between reality and fantasy. And it's
very pleasurable to choose fantasy, but
in the end that way lies madness. So you
have to choose reality. And reality
always kills you. It always hurts you,
but you you have no choice. You can't
fantasy because you go nuts. So, you
have to choose real. And the real is
always heartbreaking because life is
heartbreaking.
Is that the ending to the ones you love,
the the these, you know, Seventh Seal
and these types, it's always the
realistic ending.
Uh, yes. the the the the
bicycle thief has an ending that will
have you in tears and the seventh seal
won't have you in tears but it's very
in in the I mean the movies that you
talked about and that took people away
they were so anti-realistic I mean the
in the 30s and 40s and 50s the audience
had zero expectation of realism they
they're actually offended ed by it. Like
if you got shot, you didn't like bleed
That's right.
Or and a kiss was very chased. Things
were just indicated.
You were not allowed to open your mouth.
They were there were they had to sleep
in double beds when they were married on
the screen. You never saw any of those
married couples in the same bed. They
always had to have double beds. They
were very very prudish and very strict
about that. uh you know, but those were
escapist films. And one could make the
case that since um since there's nothing
you can really do about the tragic side
of life, that maybe in the end the
better thing to do is to make the films
that are escapist and give people an
hour and a half of respit from the
terrible anxieties of life. Let them
enjoy themselves in an unrealistic
manner for an hour and a half and go
back. You refresh them like a cold drink
of water on a on a hot day and they they
go back and all the confrontational
films, the heavy films
don't do anything except, you know,
reiterate your the tragedy of life which
you already know about. I I have to tell
you like when when I was a 14-year-old
with other wise ass New Jersey boys and
we were you were early movies were out
and we loved them and what you thought
about when you watched movies back then
and the people were you know in the
apartment where the elevator opened
right into the apartment and every phone
was white and you said people were
always drinking but no one ever vomited.
That's right.
Okay. What that was to you,
your [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] was to us as 14year-old boys
because like we read about your life,
you know, eating dinner at Alain's every
night and like all these women. I mean,
you were such a a a ladies man.
Incredible. uh uh that I that I was and
that I was able to have a life and to
have been involved with a number of
women that were quite beautiful and
formidable, gifted and intelligent.
You had dated Diane Keaton and both her
sisters. I was Yes, I was a I was a a
unusually lucky guy when it came to uh
I've had some wonderful women in my life
very very influential on me.
Oh, I know. Um you said that like at
some point you were kind of were under
the wing of Mel Brooks.
No, not under the wing. He I got on the
Sid Caesar show. I was very I was I'm
about 10 years younger than Mel and uh
and and he was very very friendly with
me when I very nice to me on on the
But you said when you the book at least
says you looked up to him in the sense
that you were just amazed that this
small Jew could be
cuz he would walk we'd walk home
together from the show. We lived in the
same neighborhood and we'd walk home
together after the show and he would
regail me with stories about his love
life and it was remarkable to me that
you know these very beautiful women he
captivated them all and he did it all
with his personality with his brains
with his personality.
That's what we were saying about you.
Okay, that's what we my 14-year-old self
was like, "This small Jew is getting a
lot of tail." So, there's got to be
something to this comedy thing, you
Uh, yes. Well, it's interesting that you
say that because when they interview
women uh and I guess men too actually,
but when they interview I notice more
with women that they when they ask them
what's important to them, that sense of
humor comes up almost more than anything
else all the time.
They're lying. They just It's just that
it's just that when the good-looking guy
says anything, they laugh. That could
be, you know,
no, it's not. It's They really do like
a, you know why they like a sense of
humor? Because what women crave more
than anything is intimacy. They They
never feel like you're quite intimate
enough. And like there's nothing sexier
than nothing wetens panties more than
like a private joke that you have with a
girl because it says, "Oh, we're just
it's just us. We're the only two that
understand this." And humor hits that
note for them.
I Yes. Because I can see with I can see
it with Mel and I can see with myself
that I I was able to go out with women
that I could have only dreamt of when I
was younger and and what they saw in me.
I couldn't figure out
stuff about your first two marriages is
so many funny lines. I mean, there's so
many LOL lines in here, but like when
you said when you were Louise Lasser,
who's like we've all had the Louise
Lasser, the the the one who's toxic in
many ways, but you too sexy, you can't
resist, right? I mean, that's her for
Yes, that's a good decision.
I mean, Sinatra had uh Ava Gardner.
Uh yes,
that was, you know, his version. We all
have that that girl uh where we shoot up
Palm Springs and then we make up.
We all did it. Um but uh you know
the line that I loved was uh I think one
of your first dates and you said uh I
was so exhausted when I got home from
being charming. I felt like I'd run a
Yes. I was I was working. Oh, I remember
that age when you're just you are just
working hard.
Yeah. Yeah. You're so cuz cuz you have
to sell yourself. The the the lovely
girl, the beautiful girl, the charming
girl, the brilliant girl says, uh, this
is what I bring to the table. Now, what
do you have? And and you look at him,
what do I have? Gee, I'm not I'm not uh
you know
Montgomery Clif and I'm not I'm not
brilliant and I'm not you know so you
got to work and sell yourself and you
try very hard to impress the girl and uh
well people would think you're brilliant
but we won't have that argument again
well I would not want to give the
impression in this conversation that I
was some kind of uh romantic uh ladies
man who scored all the time and was
successful. That was not the situation.
Most of the time I struck out. It was
the few times that I succeeded. I I
happened to be lucky. I succeeded with
some very lovely women. They were
brilliant. They were creative. They were
beautiful. They were
And as they say, very influential on my
life. I learned a lot from all of them.
Yeah. They they
and this is the kind of thing you talk
about in therapy. Are you still in
No. No, I haven't been for a long time.
thank God you said I still have the same
issues and problems and neurosis I had
when I was 17.
Yeah, this is true.
Then why I don't never understand this
about therapy. Doesn't that say it's not
working? Why keep doing it? Of course,
it for me, I can only speak for myself
because other people have told me that
it worked remarkably with them. For me,
it worked a little bit. It was a little
helpful. Not as much as I hoped. I
thought I was going to go in and come
out, you know, a new man and just in
control of everything. But that didn't
happen, but I made a tiny bit of
progress and and so that was the best I
could do. You know,
how could how could a stranger
know you better than you? Can't aren't
you always to some degree like telling a
another human being things that you know
even deeper, but you're not saying?
No, but if you just go in if you go in
and talk about your deepest feelings and
you keep talking about them
uninhibitedly over and over and over,
you yourself start to realize certain
things. I never had a, you know, a Perry
Mason moment, a Eureka moment. I mean, I
never I just But but uh
where Dela would rush into the courtroom
with new evidence about your psyche.
No, I and I, you know, I never wept. I
never broke down, you know, but uh but
gradually, I mean, even as flegmatic a
person as me. Were you uh uh funny in
therapy? I I bet you the therapist you
had, what a lucky job to get entertained
by you twice a week.
One of them said to me, I I only had a
few. One of them said to me, "I thought
it was going to be so interesting doing
uh therapy with you, but it's like uh
you know, with an accountant or a
businessman,
you know, yeah, I was uh I'm not
exciting in person. I'm not, you know,
I'm not scintillating or or or, you
know, I'm okay, pleasant.
I think you
Okay. I think I think you have I always
thought you had what I call New York
syndrome, which is like people who just
can't be happy unless they're a little
Like your thing with um you're obsessed
with the universe ending that you must
know that's so crazy. Like what is is
the universe expanding or is it what?
What? How? Why is it gonna end?
Something with the universe.
It's going to end. It's coming apart.
It's coming apart.
Flying apart. Yeah.
But not like by Friday.
Very very fast speed. Increasing speed.
I know. But okay. So it's coming apart,
but not for millions of years. You do
see how crazy it is to worry about
something that's not going to happen for
millions. Well, but but the overall
theme is I mean I I will be I will come
apart long before the universe. I mean
uh you know I'm I at the end of this
year in December I'd be 90.
I know.
And and I plan on dying in the next few
AI could s stop that? Would you live
forever if AI let you?
you mean what would they do? insert a
little mechanism in my head and I would
never be experiencing
I don't have the blueprints but AI is
doing amazing things and no I mean keep
you just reverse the deterioration of
cell damage which is what kills us. I
mean they they it's not unreasonable
that they could come up with something
where you could literally be immortal.
Yeah. Yes. But right now they they have
nothing and I'm not
I know. But I I must tell you that like
there are some people who are like
unrecognizable from 29 to 89. Like you
look at a picture like sometimes they
capture like a guy who was a prison
guard at a concentration camp, you know,
and they show a picture of you when he
was like 25 as the guard at Trebinka,
right? And then now he's he's been an
auto worker for 50 years in Ohio and
he's you know what you're and he's like
I wasn't this guy and you kind of know
he was but you look at the pictures like
I just he just looks so different. You
look exactly like Woody Allen. I mean
obviously older but like completely
recognizable.
Well yeah I I I look recognizable but
that can change overnight you know.
Yes it can. you suddenly you hit that
number and and you and then then I would
come in here, you know, with
osteoporosis and let's not I feel like
you're a hypocchondric who actually is
never sick.
I I've been very lucky. I mean lucky my
my parents had longevity, right? you
know, and so and I've been blessed so
far so far without but you know I've
spoken to people who I'm saying you know
it's remarkable you're 95 years old and
you look so great you're so vigorous and
everything is great and you know the
next year they're dead
that look that I'm I'm about to be 70
which I'm sure to you was like oh if I
was only 70
70 is a p would be a pleasure
And I know I feel the hot breath of
you know who with the scythe you know
you can't not you feel even though we
feel fine right now we know the thing is
chasing us in a way it wasn't chasing us
when we were
that's right it's closer to us
yeah it's coming up
but again we don't know uh with AI and
things like that and I mean does
yeah I don't put much faith in it for
I still think that I'm 90 people are
going to be dead soon and and the AI and
AI, you know, what can they do? They can
you know, put mental, you know,
mechanical things in your head or your
heart and and
we don't know what AI can do. That's the
whole point is that they're smarter than
us by now. We don't know what. First of
all, they're plotting against us. You
know this, right? I mean, the robots are
going to take over, but they also might
keep us alive, or they might uh kill all
of us because we misgendered somebody.
I don't think they're going to keep us
alive. I mean, I I don't think
necessarily they're going to kill us,
but I don't think you're ever going to
get to that. I mean it's they can
increase longevity with with advanced
medical you know uh knowledge but I I
doesn't look there's no way out of this
now that you're in California can't
thank you enough for coming here get
some sun I know you hate the sun you
know we're solar creatures we need sun
you need
I hate the sun
but I'm telling you this is science we
already know we don't even need AI If
know this, we need sun. We're solar
people. We're we're we're we need it to
convert vitamin D. I mean, look,
a little of it. Yeah. But but basically,
it's carcinogenic. And it's
it's not basically it's carcinogenic
when there's too much of it. Yes, it can
And it's unpleasant.
How can How can sunlight be unpleasant?
It's like the
hot and ugly. I know, but it's like the
ultimate metaphor in song and poetry for
happy and good. Like the sun came out is
a metaphor for good.
I don't see it that way. When I get up
in the morning and open the blinds, if
it's a gray, misty day in Manhattan,
it's beautiful.
And if it's sunny and glaring,
it's not so nice.
I I I can't get used to it.
Well, I mean, we see those things kind
of differently. Can I can I say that I
that I wrote a novel?
Can I because I I I wrote a book
uh that will come out in September. This
is this is a memoir
and it's non-fiction.
It's your life.
It's my life.
It's fantastic. It is. You're such a
pros stylist. I mean, besides being uh
lol throughout the book and like just
being so honest, it's you're just a
great writer as far as like
Well, you're very nice to writing is
just a series of sentences and and
sentences can be good and they can be
bad. I know they say if they put a
monkey in front of a typewriter for long
enough, he'd come out with Shakespeare.
That's [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] He never would. But the
rest of us are choosing from the 400,000
or so words in the English language and
you choose great ones.
Well, thank you. I
I decided finally to write a work of
fiction. Uh and I and I wrote a novel
the title is skate at the moment called
What's with Bound? what's like like
what's with Woody or what's with what's
with Bal and it comes out in September
of this year and uh I have no idea how
people will respond to it. Uh I'm hoping
it will entertain them but you know I
don't know I had fun writing it does not
mean for a second anyone will have fun
reading it. No, I find your writing
always I mean you've written a lot of
stuff. I mean I've had I remember the
without feathers book that I had when I
was a kid without feathers.
Yeah. New York accumulation.
Yes. I mean and you I feel like you in
your writing you are uh completely
precise a perfectionist in a way that by
your own admission you are not in film
making. I mean, you're the first one to
say like when it's 5:00,
uh, if I could make the movie better
with another take of that shot, but the
Nick game is starting, you go to the
Nick game.
Yes. I'm not a perfectionist. I don't
have the dedication that my my peers and
colleagues have. If you look at these
other filmmakers that I came along with
the Copeler and Scoresi and Spielberg
and they they're perfectionists and
they're great. Uh I I am not a
perfectionist. I'm careless and but when
you write a book it's much easier to be
a perfectionist cuz you know you're home
and it's not that much. But that's your
style. Like
yes, there is something to be said, a
lot to be said for the way those
filmmakers do what they do and their
perfectionism is noted and appreciated.
But you just have a different style
which people have come to expect in a
Woody Allen movie. You say it yourself.
I don't do coverage. You did that movie
with where you lent yourself out as an
actor to Paul Mazerki. Yes. What's the
Is it the
scenes from the mall? Oh, the mall movie
with B Middler.
Now, I didn't see it, but I did it
I saw it. It was okay.
I had respect for so I did it.
But again, you I remember you saying
like this guy works not like I do. He
rehearses. And this is how most
directors work. They rehearse. They have
a story board. They plan things.
They they care if the actors say the
words on the page. You don't do any of
that. And like that's your style. But
it's fine because like a lot of show
business is people wasting time and
money doing [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] that nobody would
I I think what you're saying is true. A
lot of there's a lot of waste and a lot
of time waste. You know, I'm careless
about that. I don't care about it.
Mazerki, a very fine director, was
meticulous and and he plotted things out
and put tape on the floor and and we
went to the locations first and and and
that made him comfortable and he was
able to do very nice movies when when he
worked, but I don't have the patience. I
don't have the the concentration to do
it. I'm not I was not a good student. I
can't concentrate. I didn't like
homework. I didn't like homework from
when I in all the years I made films. I
never took a a sheet home with me. What
do you call it? A
call sheet.
A what? A call sheet. I never took a
call sheet home with me. I never got
one. I never knew what I was shooting.
You are always on the call sheet. You're
the director.
I'm I'm the director and I don't care
what I'm shooting the night before.
It's whether you were on the sheet as an
actor. See, to me, there's two kinds of
Woody Allen movies, and they're both can
be great. I mean, but the ones you're in
are just different, you know, like
you're just a charismatic person. It's
it's impossible to explain and a lot
like your appeal is so universal all
over the world and yet what you're doing
often is so idiosyncratic, you know,
like so, you know, you once I think did
an Albert Shanker joke in one of your
I did. Yes. And and it didn't matter to
me that people would know who Alberta
They get exact. They get some things by
They get it by Yes.
Yeah. And so like Yeah. You when you're
in the movie I mean you know do I like a
lot Vicki Christina. Yes. And Match
Point and I love Midnight in Paris. But
like I like deconstructing Harry more
cuz you're Harry you know cuz it's just
a different kind of movie. You know,
it's interesting the the you know, one
thing that I remember
that you would not agree with me on for
sure was I know you took issue with my
adoration of Bob Hope.
Uh not no not as a not in the way I
don't know who told you that. I saw you
I mean I I I saw you on television and
and I don't remember the quote but you
seemed to feel that that that that it
was hard for you to understand that the
level of adoration I had for him.
But you know what that is? That's
because I saw my parents who are World
War II veterans both of them.
My father was in Patton's army. My
mother was an army nurse. Uh-huh.
They met up over there
in the era when Bob Hope was every GI's
and I watched them become so
disillusioned when he became a
right-wing cheap phone it in
hormongering douchebag.
Okay. So, I'm not that far off that you
have criticism, right?
No, but he was great when you loved him
and and I can totally separate the
artist from the schmuck. I mean, I will
listen to an R. Kelly record tonight if
I want to. I don't care.
And yes, he was great in those early
movies, but he did become this this
[&nbsp;__&nbsp;] who would never do a second
take. I remember when the when the his
specials would come on and my mother
used to be, you know, Bill, his
monologue is starting, you know, they
would gather around the TV. This is the
World War II guy. And that at some point
he was just stumbling through the qards
and I remember working with him once on
something and I heard this from other
people would never do a second take.
Even when you stumble over a line or
something and he
I mean more runway jokes, he just became
something different. and I saw that hurt
my parents. So I did have a little bit
of venom for him.
That's interesting because I I I agree
with you that his later work was not
comparable to some of those movies, but
if you see the great lover
Yes. Yeah. You know, some of those
I love the road movies.
I love Bob Hope is a coward and I know
you were doing Bob Hope.
Oh, I did them all the time.
Yeah. And that's good. You steal from
the best. You know, you
I used to do them when I before I go out
on a date with a girl. I wasn't
thinking, gee, I'm going to be Alan Lad
or Gary Cooper and I'm going to be Bob
Hope and Right.
And I that's I that's who I was. That
was my idol. And you you can see him me
doing him in movies sometimes
shamelessly. It's really I mean I'm
really putting on his suit as Jack
Rollins would say.
When you're being uh arrested for
backing out uh badly in any hall and
you're saying to the cop uh this is not
necessary.
I I don't mean to be facitious or
didactic. That's Bob Hope through Woody
Allen. And of course it's unrecognizable
to most people. That's the great thing
about being a bad impressionist. When
you steal, nobody even knows.
Nobody knows that you're stealing. Yeah.
But I I stole from him. I I did a little
documentary film honoring him for
Lincoln Center once. Stick Cavitt and I
put together a thing. And uh I I did I
put in a scene next to his deliberately
to show the audience how I was stealing
from him. And it was a scene from my
movie Love and Death. And I put it next
to one of his scenes. And you could see
it there cuz I highlighted it and you
could see the you know the same I
you know he was just a great great
influence on me both in life before I'd
go out for an evening with a young woman
I would put on and and of course I was
never myself what they must have been
thinking who this idiot is that I'm out
with tonight uh who's cracking these
oneliner jokes constantly.
But it's better when someone um gets to
I mean he lived to 97 as I recall.
He did. Yeah.
Um it's better when someone in their
later years doesn't become something
that makes you go h you didn't despite
what the idiots who witch hunted you
want to make people believe. You didn't.
You're the same guy. Yes. You didn't
become Bob Hol.
I'm hoping in the second half of my life
I live up to that.
No, Groucho was uh was a guy who aged
and didn't lose his
Okay, Groucho. Let me ask you this. If
you think you've never made a great
movie, how come all your idols, the
people you idolized were your fans? I'm
talking about Groucho Marx, SJ Pearlman,
Tennessee Williams, uh Fellini Bergman,
all these people who are your idols.
They all were your fans. It's in the
Yes. How can Could you not make a great
movie if they all liked you?
They were fans. But but I think if we
got down to specifics with them, they
would say, "Yes, I liked him. He was
very good. He did this and this." But uh
no, I wouldn't say he really any movie
he made equal city lights or Corasawa's
movies or Bergman's movies or
so. It has to be right at the tippy
tippy top of these movies that I may
never see. You know, I'm so That was the
I'm going to watch them. I'm going to
watch them.
That's the big surprise with this
conversation to me that you
cuz you would enjoy them. You You would
They'd be meaningful to you in terms of
content and intellect and you would love
the the actual
Let's just say I saved it for my 70s. I
saved something in my life. Isn't it
good? because all
well yes you can look yeah you you look
forward to them
you can look forward to those movies
I will definitely look for I I mean I
wish I could see I know I know you
probably are never going to appear in
another movie you're certainly too old
to play the anenu
yeah that was the the director when I
stopped being young enough to play the
love interest
well men get a bigger break on that than
women and I mean how old were you when
you made deconstruct ing Harry.
I don't know. I I don't know how.
Okay. But you But it was not It was not
something that made people go, "Oh,
that's ridiculous."
You didn't throw up.
You didn't throw up. And what more
greater benchmark can we have than that
for film making? You didn't throw up.
Yeah, that's the quote we used for the
picture to sell it.
But I love that one because it's dirty.
Like you say [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] and like it's
And I never saw you do that before so
Did I? Was I dirty?
It was. I loved it. It was very not very
but like No, but yeah, there was that
character said some some dirty things.
Well, I'm surprised because I was always
I was always very careful about that.
That's why I loved it.
because you weren't I
also had those jump cuts.
remember that
in Deconstructing Harry.
I don't remember the picture. No, I mean
I remember some things in it, but I
don't remember. You don't remember doing
those jump cuts where it's like
I don't because I've done jump cuts in
some movies.
I No, I don't. I don't. Uh I don't
remember. Well, anyway,
I was always very uh clean in my movies
and not not because of any
prudish impulses, but I always felt it
was you know, unless you needed to do
something uh what they called dirty. It
wasn't dirty, but that that's how they
referred to it. Uh that you didn't need
it. I I never showed too much violence
in my movies. Not because I I love
violence. I mean, in in Bonnie and
Clyde, I think it's brilliant, but it's
all those things are used so um to
substitute for good drama. People think
it's very dramatic or it's very funny or
outrageous cuz it's dirty or it's or
it's Yeah. Oh, no. You're not. I mean,
you are the farthest thing from dirty.
When I read that Ed Sullivan and Jack
Parr both accused you of being dirty,
I thought
Yes. Yes, they did.
What What that was?
Well, oh, in those days, you
But what was it? What was it that that
got their panties in a bunch?
The the the slightest kind of sexual
reference, mild.
so mild it would be ridiculous that we
you wouldn't consider it dirty or we and
at all but they were you know they were
brutish about their shows and their
audiences and uh
but you you could still be in a movie
just not the love interest unless the
woman's 80.
Uh yeah, it's hard to be in you know
it's hard I I want to do I don't want to
do a a geyser movie. A geyser movie. No,
but like No, but what you could do is
just not be the lead character. That's
almost better, you know, just be an
older a 90-year-old person who's in the
because we like it when you're in the
Uh, yeah. And
and you look the same,
but I like I like to get the girl I like
to sit opposite the girl over candle
light. Well, you can't.
No, I can't. I know. I can't. I can't.
What do I
You can't. You have to come to terms
with I mean mortality. I mean does it do
you ever like I mean you seem to have
this pessimistic view that I'm going to
die and blah blah blah which I guess is
it's not so pessimistic. You know it's
pro probably going to happen.
Okay. It's probably going to happen. But
I mean does that give you any second
thoughts? Do you ever hedge your bets
about No, I don't know if you call
yourself an atheist. I think we're both
very much on the same page with that. I
proudly say the word. Um, but I don't
know if you do, but we basically b I
mean, you've said in the book,
religion's a hustle. You think God is a
crass bungler. This sounds exactly like
what I think.
But does it make you ever go, "Whoa,
maybe I should uh like start believing
just in last minute."
No, I I think that you either have that
gift or or you don't. I don't, right?
So, I couldn't. But uh you know, I
always envy people who actually believe
in God. It's a it's a great great
tremendous a great thing the gift
people who put their head on the pillow
at night and say I know that if I die in
my sleep I'll go to a better place
that's and and believe it not cuz
they're they're not doing it for any
other reason. I I was not blessed with
that. Uh, no.
I mean, when you think about the
changes just from one generation, I
mean, what year was your father born?
1900. My father was born in 1921. That's
about we're 20 years apart about the
same thing. I mean, when you That's just
That's just one generation,
but we have I mean, just the smartphone,
forget about AI. If they if they rip and
winkle their way back to life, your
father or my father coming from a time
your father before radio
what I mean it's just mindboggling how
much change takes place.
In a single generation really does.
Yeah. Yeah. If you think back, if I
think back to my grandfather, I mean, I
think back to Lincoln,
you know,
Abraham Lincoln.
Abraham Lincoln. Same guy, right?
This is a There was a Phil Lincoln.
Gay. No, I'm thinking of Abraham.
Yeah. No, I know.
Uh, and uh Yeah. But your your father
interesting the way you write about him,
you know, one of the funniest things the
gag and radio days that killed me was,
you know, your father was kind of a wy
odysius kind of character, right? You
know, he was shifty and shifty, right?
And so the kid, you know, he's racking
up at the table and the mother's always
like, "Stop it. Your father works so
hard." And the kid keeps saying, "At
That's right. You never knew in my
family. And okay, I accept he worked
hard doing what? That was your
You knew your father's job, right?
I did. Yes,
you did. You had a You had a a stable
I did. I was very lucky.
Well, you did, too.
Yes. Yes. It was very loving. I have no
excuses. I had loving parents and and
Was nice to me. And I grew up
missanthropic
and and uh
but they were married
depressed and
70 years
my parents.
Yeah. Isn't that
I mean
that's as long as I've been alive.
Out of spite.
You know that's the that's a great line.
Out of spite.
Yeah. They they they stayed together.
But I had a, you know, a very nice
childhood. All my relatives loved me and
everything was great. I should have been
a very happy,
sweet, nice, good-natured person. But I
turned out to be misanthropic, neurotic,
hypochondrial,
depressed. Um, uh, I don't know why.
I'm not bad to other humans. I'm no one.
I mean, a misanthrop
doesn't trust them. Doesn't like them,
but I'm not bad to them. I'm not cruel
or anything. I'm nice to people.
No, I'm But I But I, you know, I don't
like them. I I don't
Right. You You say in the book you don't
like meeting new people
and I don't And you don't like to be
wherever you are.
Right. I'm chronically unhappy.
Chronically dissatisfied. Must be
miserable right now.
Chronically unhappy.
you know.
Yeah. New Yorker syndrome.
Yeah. I wonder maybe it is maybe, you
know, someone standing outside looking
at New York would say, you know, there's
millions of people that live here and a
good portion of them have that syndrome.
But you also have wondrous things in
your life. I mean, okay, your parents
had a marriage that was out of spite,
but the way you describe your marriage,
completely idllic.
It is. It's great. I looked out, right?
Lucked out completely.
Okay. I mean, you say, you know, you eat
every meal together.
I mean, and this has been going on for
30 years basically.
We've been married for about 30 years.
I mean, that's it just it's a crazy
world. It is. It is amazing though the
way the media gets stuff very often, not
just wrong, but like diametrically
wrong. like and I know from things
they've written about me when you read
about yourself it's what you say to
yourself is wait this is the one subject
I know really well me I know what I said
I know what I do you know so like if I'm
reading about me and it has no relation
to reality how can I trust what you're
saying about anything Iran plastics
[&nbsp;__&nbsp;]
I've asked that question at times in in
show business that that I would see
things that his movie is based on this
or he's done he's doing a a book about
this and it's completely untrue and I
think to myself okay these are trivial
things I'm not doing a movie about that
I didn't get the idea for this movie
from that
so what must be going on in a uh in you
know when they talk about wars and and
taxes than the government. And I asked a
journalist that once and he said, "Well,
it's different. They're not as
scrupulous uh on the show business
stories." He said, "When it comes to the
serious things, they they are more
accurate and they do try harder. when it
comes to the, you know, the show
business stories, they they're they
don't have the same level of
I'm not sure I have and I'm not sure I
have your confidence in that part of it
either. I mean,
you you're you're a lot calmer than I
would be if I had been in your situation
with I mean, you say you're
disillusioned with liberals. I'll bet.
But, you know, like the last 10 pages,
you kind of finally ride. It's awesome.
you kind of, but even then, you know,
it's it's done in such a a a particular
and and professional way. It never gets
nasty. It it just it sticks to what you
can prove, basically. Um, but
yeah, I'm not I'm not nasty by nature.
No, but you you But I could but the
disillus I mean, look, you did a movie.
You again lent yourself out as an actor,
which you don't do a lot, for the
blacklist. I mean, the front.
Okay. Well, you must have I know you did
uh the sort of recapitulation of the
witch hunt. I mean, obviously that was
about witch hunting communists to then
what happened to you. And I mean, I was
I'm hardly been the first one to notice
that, you know, the kind of moralizing
that we used to hate from the right, you
know, the Jerry Fwells of the world,
and then it came from the left. I mean,
I've had it happen to me on a much
lesser scale than you, but it it is I I
find it a bitter pill from
It comes from both sides. It does comes
from the right and the left.
Mostly what happened to you came from
the left.
you were a victim of over excesses of
the Me Too movement and wokeness and uh
a lot of inconsistencies there. But but
yeah, I mean
but I was lucky because you know that
that could be ruinous depending I I was
when when everything happened. I was
much older. I had done 45 movies
already. I was I had made enough money
so I could retire for life comfortably.
I you know I was thinking even I only
want to make a few more movies and then
I would like to start to write books and
plays and so it happened to me at a time
when it was no problem if it had
happened when I was 25 or
the first wave of it happened
you know you were first wave of it
happened in 1993 when you were first
with Sunsi that was a giant scandal but
you know what people forget maybe is
that for years After that, you were
golden. You You
I didn't have I didn't have any real
You're you're practical problems.
A-list star. If they got a call,
uh Woody Allen wants you in his movie,
they would all do it with for very
little money, you know. Yeah,
it was just a super prestigious thing
that then went to the I mean you have a
great line about like it it became the
thing to do not to work with me the way
you know suddenly people wanted kale.
Yes. And I but I but but it amused me
because it didn't it didn't you know it
didn't have any as a practical thing. It
didn't it was not hurtful to me. I you
Oh come on. Yes it was.
I mean no no it wasn't as a as I'm
talking about as a practical matter you
know I I was I was as I say I was in my
80s and I I had made so many movies and
I uh you know it didn't matter it didn't
hurt me if I was 30 or 40 it would have
been career ending
but disillusionment but it wasn't my
career was you know disillusionment is
disillusionment at any age I mean you
you must I know you said in the book
you're dis you you were disillusioned at
the justice system um I thought that was
fascinating you you
that's different
I was so naive I thought there was a
penalty for perjury
yeah that you're shocked because you
most people don't find themselves in a
situation in a courtroom and you're in a
courtroom and people are are perjuring
themselves one after the other and you
think, well, isn't this against the law,
but it you find out that it isn't
exactly what you think that that yes,
it's against the law technically, but
nobody does anything about it. It was a
very interesting exper I found the whole
thing an interesting and amusing
experience in many ways and only because
I had already as I said done so many
movies and and had accumulated enough
personal re financial resources so that
it you know I I wasn't hurt by it but
but if I was 40 or 50 or 30 or something
it would have been very very painful.
But but at the at the point that it
but you're still it just wasn't.
You're still and I'm not nasty.
I mean, I remember once I got a DUI,
which is not nearly what you went
through, but you know, they make it go
through a 14-week program and go to AA
meetings and like you are entrapped into
the criminal justice system again at a
very low level. But even at that level,
I was like, "Whoa, this is awful." I
mean, first of all, there's a lot of
people who love it that they just have
complete power over you and whatever you
do because now you're in the system, the
system. I can It gives you a great
insight into what it must be like, you
know, for black Americans to this shitty
end of the justice system for their
whole exist. Yes, but I was lucky cuz I
No, I am saying it. But it gives you an
insight when you when you see the
justice system up close.
It's sobering,
right? But fortunately, I was never
really in the the system because I was
Of course you were. There were two
police investigations.
Yes, but I was I was never charged with
anything. I was found
I know. But I was found that nothing
ever happened in both investigations.
So, so I never really suffered as much
as you might think, but but I will say
it was fortunate. It came at a fortunate
time in my life because I didn't have to
worry about money and I didn't have to
worry about making films. I made them
and I, you know,
Well, you were much younger when those
two police investigations were going on.
I would be [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] in my pants if the
police were investigating me. Not if
you're you don't if you're innocent. You
Yeah, except innocent people sometimes
don't get I mean humans are making these
judgment calls and we know what we think
of humans.
I don't think much of humans but I I do
have great great faith in in evidence.
So, I I uh I I never it never I never
for a second had a a a bad moment
because I felt I I felt it was kind of
amusing to turn on the television set
and see people talking about it when I
knew what the situation was and the
So, you have no bitterness toward the
people who renounced you? I mean, there
are some people who defended you like
Scarlett Johansson and well, me, but I'm
not in movies. Um, Alec Baldwin. Um, all
No, they were they were ex-lovers. No,
Diane. No, these are these are people
I just made a mistake.
They they I I don't I'm not criticizing
The renouncers.
They They think or thought, whatever the
occasion was, that they were doing the
right thing, but they were not.
No, they didn't. They're cowards. They
Are you kidding? Timothy Shalomé. Look,
he's a great actor. I I'm not trying to
pick a fight with him. Not that he would
care. Uh but you know, I saw him on his
campaign for the Dylan movie, which he
was incredible in, but this boy wants an
Oscar more than his next breath. He'd
throw his mother under the bus. Okay.
So, I can't like quite sit back as well
as you can with this equinimity and say,
"Oh, that or Greta Gerwig who renounced
you and oh, I'm so sorry I worked with
him." Okay. You know, she's a big movie
They they they are m they're making a
mistake. They they're,
you know, they're not. First of all, I
I've had a good time working with both
of them and they they think that they're
doing something honorable or helpful,
but they're not. They're just they
guessed wrong. They made a wrong
decision on that. Someday, maybe they'll
realize it. Maybe it will be clear to
them for whatever reason. Maybe it never
will be. But that's all that they've
done is is made a mistake. They
But it's just it's so they're such
cheap, you know. It's like look, the
press loves to anoint people. You were
anointed for a long time. You were the
most anointed person. I mean, the New
York Times was always all I mean, you
were the greatest thing ever. And you
were making great movies. The issue was
it never resonated with me. So I just
worked and did my movies and the
marriage was great and you know I mean
it hasn't it hasn't had a practical
impact on me.
You made a movie recently you know can
we is that
well well I've written a novel recently.
People see television more when you do a
movie and it goes right to streaming.
Who cares what who cares if you make
them go to the movie theater if they see
it in their home. Isn't it more
important?
I don't know. I grew up in making movies
and they went into movie theaters and it
was a different a different phenomenon.
I'm not happy with them going to screen
screenings and I I I just don't
streaming. I'm sorry. Uh it just doesn't
interest me that much. So I I I don't
care, you know. I I
But people see it. Pe more people will
see it.
Yeah. More people see it. But that's not
how I wanted to present it. I want to
present it in a movie theater on a
screen the way I grew up watching
movies. And if I can't, I don't think I
want to make movies. I want to write
novels or plays
because it's because you think the
communal experience of a theater is
important.
Yeah. The whole gestalt of the thing,
the whole, you know, waiting line and
going in with a lot of people and
sitting down with 500 people or 400
people and watching it together and then
Yeah. They're they're not not isolated.
Everybody isolated watching a movie at
home, you know,
but you know, this is a civilization
gone with the wind,
right? I mean, that civilization
that Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm happy to,
you know, I mean, make a movie maybe,
but not not thrilled with it. It's a the
excitement is gone. So I'm I'm that's
why I wrote this novel. It was fun for
me to write a novel and it will be fun
for me to write a couple of plays. I
have a play that's in Europe that's
going to come to the United States. You
know, it's more interesting to me to
stand in the back of a theater and
Do Do your uh kids ever argue with you
about stuff like this? Your kids are
like grown now, right?
Yeah. Young adults.
They're what?
They're 26.
I have two daughters who are 26.
Okay. Do they argue with you about stuff
like this? Do they try, you know, do
they Is it the typical uh No, dad, your
No, they they they don't they don't they
uh Well, I didn't raise them as, you
know, show business kids or movie kids.
I didn't show them my movies. You know,
eventually they caught up with a couple
of them, but uh no, they're they're,
you know, No, they don't argue with me.
They argue with me about a lot of
things, but not that. Not that. Mm-m.
What movies of yours did they like?
Say it again.
What movies of yours do they like?
Yeah. I don't know. Uh,
really? That didn't come up with your
own kids?
No, because I I don't know which ones.
They've seen some of my movies, but I
don't know which ones they've seen. I've
never, you know, I never visited that on
them. They have two New York kids.
They've gone to school in New York and
they've and they one works uh in in the
art world, the art gallery, and another
one works uh
Emily in Paris
and and
you know, but I never I never pushed
them in any way. I have a very, you
know, nice, warm, loving relationship
with them. And they they uh I never
wanted to inflict or you got to watch
your father's movies or actually the
only movie I really ever inflicted on
them and it's not an infliction it's a
treat was the treasure of the Sierra
Madre. I want them to see because I find
that to be a great American movie and
and uh I showed that to them and and
they liked it.
Well, I will put that on my list with
the bicycle thief.
You never saw that? I don't
I may I may have seen that. Is that
Humphrey Bogard?
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. And Casablanca. Do we like that
You know, I'm not not nuts about
Casablanca. I mean,
but you wrote the the movie. That's a
I know. But then see, people always
associate these things with my life. I I
wrote because I thought I get jokes for
it. The same way in Manhattan. I thought
I get jokes with the older guy and the
younger woman. And I thought in and play
it against Sam, I would get laughs doing
stuff bouncing off Casablanca. But I,
you know, the lady uh who used to write
for the New York Times wrote a book
about Casablanca. She was a critic for
the New York Times or feature writer and
she wrote a book about Casablanca and
she called me and I said, you know, I've
never really sat through the whole
picture. I don't. And she couldn't
believe it. And I, you know, I
What part made you drop off?
I I lost interest. I lost interest in
it. And I'm a great Humphrey Bogart fan.
I mean, I really
Except for his movies.
No, no, no, no. I I
What? So, okay. What other bogey movie
do you like? I mean,
oh, I loved High Sierra and I loved uh
um Targo and I loved uh
the Kane Mutiny and I I just uh I just
and you know there's something really
New Yorky about him. I mean he's really
came from New York theater. I mean he
was that first generation of actors who
had come from the theater but most of
them failed because they were theater
actors. They were and Bogi understood
the medium you know.
Uh yeah he he just had it. You can see,
you know, you see him in a in scenes. I
saw him in a scene. I can't remember who
it was just last week in some movie on
Turner Classic movies. And uh the guy
with him Oh. Oh, it was it was The
Harder They Fall. And Rod Stiger was
acting with them. They were nose tonose
acting. And Stiger was acting up a
storm. And Bogart wasn't doing anything.
And he was just great. He was just, you
know, there was no acting at all. He's
just coasting on his personality and
talking and and it was just magnetic.
I'm just wonderful. Uh the other guys
doing stuff that nobody in life ever
does. Nobody talks like that. Nobody
carries on like that. But uh
so your advice to kids getting into the
business is coast on your personality.
It's do less. If I if I have given if
I've given one direction more than any
other in my whole life to actors, it's
do less. Don't.
So when you when you did decide to have
a surrogate, shall we call that play
you? Because there are parts you could
have played.
Oh yeah, sure.
And you chose John Cusack or you chose
Kenneth Branow or you chose Mia.
What what went into it? Why like why did
you some of the times say I'm going to
do it and then some of the time say I'm
going to have a a surrogate deliver this
baby? I
I don't think I ever had a surrogate
when I could have done it. I mean I
don't I don't think I could have
I don't think I could have played you
know these are great actors you're
talking about. Kusack's wonderful and
and Kenneth Brer's wonderful
and they were much younger than me. I I
couldn't have if I could have done it, I
would have done it. I I always would do
the part that I could do. Uh but uh I
aged out of it, you know. I I I just uh
when I I started to realize that I was
not going to be the love interest
anymore and I I started to think, ah,
you're the love interest in your life
with all the craziness and the
Kafka-esque
nonsense. you went through. And I don't
defend you because I'm a fan, although I
plainly am. Although you've also made
some turkeys. That's true.
But I I mean, but you could be the worst
filmmaker. I defend you because I don't
like witch hunts. They're bad for
society. They're bad for people. They're
wrong. They're immoral. That's why I do
Not because I'm a fan. I'm sure you know
your your persona is is much more
socially engaged, much more politically
engaged. So an issue you would engage
the issue on the merits of the issue.
Yes. And I see a connection between a
lot of where the left went that I did
not like in recent years and this kind
of case. This kind of moralizing this
kind of [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] standing apart from the
facts just wanting to look like we're
are the good people and we shun this
person and this person is canled and
that kind of stuff. I don't like it in
any any of its dimensions. Look, I
always say about these cases, uh, if
you're not in the room, just don't say
to me, "I know." You don't know. I don't
know about you. Nobody knows except you.
I would just say that of all those kind
of cases, the preponderance of evidence
on the one side makes it just very
unlikely that you were guilty of this.
It just none of it makes sense.
You know, I want to make one other point
uh on what you were saying a moment ago.
There's a difference between the Me Too
movement and cancel culture. I mean, the
Me Too movement for whatever value it
had in terms of uh advancing women's
rights is a valuable thing.
Cancel culture is a totally different
phenomenon. May it may be related to it.
may have been utilized by it or by
various it's been utilized by various
people cancel culture is a pernitious
thing uh and uh you know it it's it's
quite a bad thing but in terms of I
always feel if you're going to be
cancelled by a culture this is the
culture to be cancelled by
you know I mean you you this is this is
not a culture that be proud of
right Um but but there is a big
difference. The me too movement may have
helped women in many ways and and that's
to the good
but but cancel the concept of cancelling
is is is not a good
I mean it went too far. You you
it's not a good thing in any area. I
mean, forget about uh women or, you
know, in in in terms of politics, in
terms of uh um you know, the McCarthy
era cancellation is a uh
I mean,
it's just not a way to deal with uh with
issues. It doesn't serve any purpose. Uh
but all of this has not turned you into
a Trumper
into a pro into
A Trumper. No, I'm not a Trumper. I I'm
one of the few people who can say he
directed Trump. I directed Trump in a
celebrity in Celebrity. And he was uh
you know he was a pleasure to work with
and a very good act. He was very polite
and and hit his mark and did everything
correctly and had a real flare for show
business. Do you think you were
cancelled before?
I could direct him now. If he would let
me if he if he would let me direct him
now that he's president, I think I could
I could do wonders. But uh but he was
but he was he was very easy to work
with. And
no, I I Yeah, he's different in person
and when you say that, people who are
just purely emotional uh get very upset
even though it's just the truth. We're
just saying the truth. you know, I I
am a Democrat. I voted for Camela Harris
and and uh and I, you know, take issue
with him, you know, on 95% of the things
maybe 99%.
Uh but as an actor, as a as a as you
know, to right, he he was he was very
good. He was very convincing and very uh
you know he has charismatic
quality as an actor and uh I'm surprised
he wanted to go into pol politics is
nothing but headaches and critical
decisions and agony and this was a guy I
used to see at the Nick games and he
liked to play golf and he liked to judge
beauty contests and he liked to do
things that were enjoyable and relaxing
And why anyone would want to suddenly
have to deal with the issues of politics
is beyond me. But uh apparently he
doesn't mind.
But you don't think that going into
politics is the ultimate acting job? I
mean that's the whole point about him
being so different off stage. They got
mad at me for saying this is that it's
an acting job and they all do it to a
degree. He just took it to a like with
everything with him to the nth degree.
But it is the ultimate acting job being
I but that doesn't bother me. They're
all they all have to put on a certain uh
patina for the public and all that. I
it's I disagree with many of I would say
almost almost all not all but almost all
of his politics of his policies. But but
in terms I I can only judge you know
what I know from directing him in film
and and and he was he was you know and
and he was pleasant to work with and
very professional very polite to
everyone and very uh you know but uh as
I say I I would like to direct him now
that he's president and and have him let
me make the decisions. Well, I
But that's not gonna happen.
I'll make a call.
Uh, I can't tell you how much I
appreciate you coming here to
California, even though we have sun.
Horrible, terrible, wicked sun. Uh,
yeah, the sun doesn't uh Well, it does
kill me actually. So,
it it won't it will actually help you if
you just get a little sun.
I don't need that much vitamin D.
You You do. You absolutely do need
vitamin D. Then I'd take in a
supplement, a little pill. I'll pop it
in my orange juice.
Yeah. I don't think that can make up for
all of what the sun itself has to do.
The sun converts the vitamin D. So no
matter how much you take, it has to be
converted. I mean, this is the way it
was designed by Jesus, Woody. And this
is the world we live in. I I I didn't
make it. I'm just trying to tell you,
you need a little son.
Let's Let's do a little tanning. Let's
get a little sun.
Stay a day later. We'll we'll go out.
We'll do a little tanning and then we'll
go to Palm Springs and pick up some
girls like Bob Hope.
Put on the lotion and lay back in the in
the chair.
All right. Well, thank you. And you're a
treasure for a reason, like I say. And
the book.
Thank you very much.
Is out in paperback, right?
Uh of nothing. Isn't that why we're
here? Because
it must be. No, we were here cuz uh cuz
I have a novel coming out.
A novel? novel coming out in in
September called What's Wats with Bound
and And I I was really here to promote
the novel, but but we never got to it.
Let's get to it.
No, no, no. I know. No, no. I I I forced
it in clumsily. But but but that's okay
because it it's not going to sell
anyhow. So, why waste your time?
I'm going to read it.
No, it'll sell. You're Woody Allen. You
can sell a book.
You've been very very Thanks.
His muscles played
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