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Daniel Cormier On Jon Jones, Dana White, Conor McGregor, Khabib, LeBron, Tom Brady & Jake Paul

Key Points

Daniel Cormier is one of the most accomplished MMA fighters in history - UFC Hall of Famer, two-time Olympian, former light heavyweight and heavyweight champion, and the second fighter in UFC history to hold titles in two weight classes simultaneously
Athletes are playing at elite levels longer due to better access to recovery methods, smarter training, and addressing underlying health issues earlier in their careers rather than ignoring their bodies
Cormier started MMA at age 30.5 with a wrestling background, which gave him a massive head start despite the late entry into the sport
Jon Jones is considered the most talented fighter in MMA history with his combination of height (6'4"-6'5"), 84-inch reach, skills, timing, and mental toughness, though steroid use prevents him from being considered the greatest of all time
Cormier believes he would have beaten Jon Jones at heavyweight due to his natural size advantage, and Jones even admitted he wouldn't fight Cormier at heavyweight because it would give Cormier the advantage
Modern MMA requires fighters to be extremely well-rounded - one-dimensional fighters cannot survive in today's UFC, unlike the early days when specialists could dominate
The mental aspect of fighting is crucial - Cormier would tell himself "somebody got to die in here, it ain't going to be me" before every fight to get in the proper mindset
Cutting weight is extremely taxing - Cormier once weighed 257 pounds after Thanksgiving and had to cut to 204.7 pounds by January 19th, requiring strict nutritionist supervision
Russian and Dagestani fighters like Khabib excel because they start combat sports early and it's their primary path to changing their lives, unlike American fighters who often have more comfortable upbringings
Money in fighting is hard to keep due to taxes and expenses, but it provides freedom and the ability to take care of loved ones - Cormier's greatest accomplishment was buying his mother a house
The biggest challenge for elite athletes is finding partners who truly understand the level of selfishness required for greatness and can accept being second priority during competition
Losing a child (his daughter Kaiden at 3.5 months in a car accident) was the worst thing that ever happened to Cormier, but he channeled that pain into motivation for his athletic achievements
His stepfather Percy taught him the most important life lesson - the value of hard work - by working multiple jobs and taking young Daniel along to learn work ethic
Being knocked out creates severe memory loss - after Jon Jones knocked him out, Cormier had to be told what happened seven times and had the same emotional reaction each time
Wrestling provides crucial self-defense skills and confidence for children, transforming scared kids into confident ones within six months of training
The baddest men on the planet are UFC heavyweight fighters, specifically mentioning Tom Aspinall, Francis Ngannou, and Jon Jones as the current top contenders
Conor McGregor's fighting career is effectively over because he made too much money from boxing Floyd Mayweather and selling his whiskey company, removing the hunger necessary for elite competition
Joe Rogan is described as the "Howard Cosell of MMA" with an incredible memory for fight history and genuine passion for the sport, initially calling fights for free because he loved it
Full Transcript

Language: en
Have we ever seen someone in that sport
that possessed the arsenal that he has?
No. He's by far the most talented person
that we've had in mixed martial arts.
When he beat me, I was
That was the best you'd ever been.
I'd never been better.
Let's just say for the sake of argument,
you're three years apart. And now y'all
move up and y'all heavyweight.
Nah, he he wasn't beating me at heavy
all my life. Been grinding all my life.
Sacrifice, hustle, paid the price, want
a slice, got to roll the dice. That's
why all my life I've been grinding all
my life. All my life. Been grinding all
my life. Sacrifice hustle paid the
price. Want a slice. Got to roll a dice.
That's why all my life I've been
grinding all my life.
Hello. Welcome to another episode of
Club Shay. I am your host Shannon Sharp.
I'm also the propri of Club Shay.
Stopping by for conversation and a drink
today is one of the most accomplished
and decorated fighters in MMA history.
He's one of the great mixed martial
artists of all times. A warrior in the
octagon, a champion in every MMA
organization he's competed in, a former
UFC light heavyweight champion and
heavyweight champion. He's the second
fighter in UFC history to hold titles in
two weight classes simultaneously. He's
the first fighter to in the UFC to win
and defend both the light heavyweight
and the heavyweight belts. A UFC Hall of
Famer, a two-time Olympian, three-time
Louisiana State Champion, an
all-American freestyle wrestler, color
commentator, worldclass talent, a master
on the microphone, a father, a husband,
a legend. DC could stand for double
champion, but in this case, it stands
for Daniel Cormier,
my man. Hey, say it again. When you say
it all, when you say it all, when you
say it all, man, I'm going to tell you,
when you say it all, it's something cuz
I grew up in Louisiana. I never could
have imagined this life. I swear to God,
I never could have imagined. And to hear
all that, man, that was uh that was a
man. Thanks for stopping by Club Shay
Thank you,
man. You know, when you stop by Club
Shay, you know you got to have a taste
of the
Yeah. Yeah. That shave by the pool.
Yeah, man. Awardw winning.
Awardw winning.
It's good.
It's great. You know anything about
No, I don't. But let me I'm going to try
Oh, it smells strong, too.
Swish it around. Don't
Well, that's pretty good. It don't even
really It don't
Yeah. See, they got that bite. You got
that bite. I was expecting a little bit.
So, my daddy drink like Southern Comfort
and stuff like that. Set your hair on
Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. It's nice and
smooth. Yeah. It's easy.
See, we got to get you some. We got to
get some for your old man.
That's actually really good.
Yeah. See,
that's real good. Let me ask you when
you hear what I read off and you and I
were talking before we started this
interview and you was talking about
growing up in Louisiana and the
expectations of and now you're in media.
Did you expect any of this to happen?
This be your life at your age now?
No, Shannon, I was I was a kid that I
didn't do I grew up in in Lafayette,
right? So, it's not the best place,
But I followed everybody. So, I did
everything they did. So whenever when I
was in high school, my freshman year, I
was a kid that failed off the wrestling
team, right?
I was a kid that had to go to summer
school to get to 10th grade, I did all
kinds of bad stuff until I started
getting better at wrestling, right?
And then I realized like, wait, this
wrestling can take me somewhere,
But even after that, I never thought
I would have jobs doing what I do with
the volume, uh, working at ESPN, working
at Fox that I used to.
A lot of similarities, right? But like
having those opportunities, I never
could have imagined doing that because
I didn't even go I didn't go to college
for media. None of us did. We went to
college to play sports.
And normally the best people that are in
media didn't go to college for media,
especially when they do what we do. Now,
obviously, you know, the the playbyplay
and and things of that, you know,
obviously, but
to sit and talk about a sport,
it it really helps if you play that
sport and you can speak through personal
experience.
Absolutely. And that's what people want
to hear. The people actually want to
hear when you are talking as the guy
that played
the tight end, the guy that's in the Pro
Football Hall of Fame. When you're
talking about football
because they know, well, he been in the
trenches and that's what I do when it
comes to fighting. I can explain
something in real fine detail.
there's no position I haven't
experienced,
the good and the bad in my career.
I'm going to take it from this approach.
You you got a late start to the to to
Yep. and getting a late start that
didn't deter you because now I'm looking
at you what you were able to accomplish
later in your career. How I mean is how
is that possible DC?
So I walked into that gym at 30 and a
half, right?
I turned 31 in March. I I only fought
for 10 years and at 41 I should have
been done but the money had got too
good. That's the way you know the money
get good at the end. The money get good
at the end whenever you aren't supposed
to be doing it anymore. But I I I kept
fighting. But I walked into that gym,
but because of my background in
wrestling, it gave me like a massive
head start. So I d I went out to San
Jose. I I went to multiple gyms
recruiting.
They were trying to get me to train, but
I walked into AKA, bro. I saw Kane
Velasquez. I was like, "Yo, that dude is
who I want to fight like. And if I can
train alongside him,
it will lead me to being one of the
best." But at 31 years old, I was
essentially making my uh MMA debut
because normally guys that are really
really good, they start obviously you
got a wrestling background, but they've
been doing this for an extremely long
period of te of time and you just
basically I mean 30 years old with a
wrestling background, but you got to be
multifaceted to be really good in the
UFC. The more rounded you are, the
better you are. If you're
one-dimensional, you're not going to
have a you're going to have a very short
shelf life in that sport.
Yep. Not today. You can't you you you
definitely cannot be onedimensional
today. Right.
Back in the day, you remember Royce
Grace and those guys? I do. They would
walk with the the jiu-jitsu chain. You
had the jiu-jitsu guy. You had the big
boxer. One brother went out there with
one glove on. His name was R. Jimmerson.
He went out there with one glove.
Can't do that.
The first two fights that were in
Denver, Colorado, I saw him UFC.
You went?
I went.
See, that's crazy.
I was telling Dana the story.
You actually went to watch it?
I went to watch it cuz I I I'm, you
know, just like Okay. And you know,
listening to it, what is it going to be?
Well, we going to see if a karate guy
could beat a this guy and if a big guy
could beat that guy. And I'm like,
"Okay, so what about the classic?" They
like, "Ain't no weight class." I like,
"Hold on. So a guy 125 could literally
be fighting somebody 275." Like, "Yeah."
I like, "Uh, I don't think this going to
end well."
But that's what drew you in, right? And
then Royce wins and he's 165.
Yes. I'm looking at this little dude. I
said, "You about to get the brace beat
off you." And he got his he got his he
got his suit on and Yeah. And I'm like,
"What's he doing?" He's like literally
trying to lay down. I'm like, I don't
think this cuz I because I ain't never
about no
TC. I don't know about no Brazilian
jitsu. And he's like laying down. I'm
like, what you doing?
You go down there, you trouble.
Yeah, exactly.
If you go down there with him, they were
in trouble. But
I I had So, girl, so that my manager
still to this day, Dwayne, he calls me
when I graduate college at Oklahoma
State. He goes, "Hey, there's a sport."
This is 2001. He goes, "There's a sport
that's going to take over. It's going to
be MMA. It's fighting. Have you ever
been in a fight like in your life?
I started laughing at him. I said, "Bro,
I grew up in Louisiana. I had to fight
all the time." Right.
And I think that
that even though even though Shan like
we don't
I'm pretty sure you grew up down in the
South K and you had to fight at times
even though we aren't doing it
correctly. Somebody's trying to punch
you. You're trying to punch someone. So
then it when somebody taught me to punch
like, "Okay, this is how it's done the
right way." Correct. So, it allowed for
me to uh adjust to it much faster. I
wasn't scared, right?
Like that's the biggest thing with
wrestlers, especially being scared to
get hit. You cannot be scared,
How is it that we're starting to see
more athletes DC dominate in their 40s,
you saw a guy like yourself, you see a
LeBron James, you saw a Tom Brady, you
see guys that are playing at extreme cuz
normally guys, they're gone. By the time
they get to the mid30s, they're gone.
Especially in your sport, even in
football, guys ain't playing that long.
And every once in a while, you'll get a
Kareem Abdul Jabbar that'll be, but he's
a big guy and he doesn't need to get up
and down the court.
But to see Tom play until he's what, 43,
44 years of age. Yourself fighting
at 41. Yeah.
That's a whole LeBron still being able
to be play at the level he's playing at.
Why do you think guys have been able to
to to do things to this level for much
Because of the access to to recovery. I
think athletes are smarter today. Those
guys are are very young. So when we're
younger, like you're in your 20s, you're
in your 30s, you're Superman. Yeah. You
go to sleep, you jump out of bed, you go
to train. Yes.
Every day. But then as you start to get
older, the body starts to ache a little
more. But those guys in their 20s and
30s are not
they're not rejecting the body anymore.
They're saying at 25, while I may feel
great, I know there are like problems
underlying for me that I need to address
address make sure that I'm straight. And
I think that's why they're playing so
long, but they're playing at an elite
level. I remember when Pton Manning went
to Denver.
He said it himself. He goes, "I can't
throw the ball down the field." He goes,
"But I will manage a game. Every now and
again, I'll give you one that goes a
little deeper." He goes, "But I'm
managing the game." Because at the point
we were still kind of living in that
that world where you just age and then
you age out. And even Aaron Rogers right
now, right? We'll see what happens this
year. But last year, he just didn't look
like the same guy and caught up to him
going into a fight because like you
said, when you're young, you feel
invincible. You feel you can't lose. As
you start to get age, you're like, I'm
not as quick as I once was. My reaction
time is not the same. My my my defense
mechanisms are not the same. My spidey
senses don't tingle like they once did.
I'm not processing information. You know
what I'm saying? The computer
the internet ain't working.
The internet you you back on a
dial up. You don't
[Laughter]
you're exactly right. But DC, I mean for
you I mean you went in there and you did
what you did to CP like what's what is
your what was your thought process? Did
you like man I'm getting older. Did you
do any did you train any different?
So at 39 I didn't so I I didn't at 39.
This is the craziest [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] ever. So 39
Right. In 2017
I lost to Jon Jones in Anaheim.
Right. So, I was they called me, "Hey,
you want to fight another fight?" It was
like September, uh, October. I said,
"No." I said, "Um, this was the first
time I'd been knocked out in my life."
Like, in my life, Shannon, like
in football, I would hit people and you
kind of buzz.
I was knocked out,
bell rung, and all it was was my bell
just got rung, right? You go back to
I got knocked out, man. like he kicked
me in the head and he hit me with a
bunch of follow-up shots and it put me
out like hey
I remember I can tell you right now this
was in 2017
from the the moment I that fight
finished all the way back to the
ambulance I still can't recall that time
I can't make myself remember what
happened I try I try now even at night
to go man what happened in that 10 15
dude there's a video of me crying with
Joe Rogan He's interviewing me after the
fight, but I'm so concussed that I'm
crying in the lockdown because I just
lost the biggest fight of my career,
They called me to fight again. And I
said, "No." I said, "I'm gonna let my
brain rest until the end of next year
or the beginning of next year. I fight
in January. At 39, I feel great. I go
into I I I win the belt back. I beat
Stipe in July and I'm fine. I feel no
age because of the late start, right?
I'm only doing this seven years now,
right? Eight years. Because of the late
start at 39, I become the double champ.
I defend the belt in Madison Square
Garden. Everything is great. But on that
morning of that fight with Derrick
Lewis, I get up to do my shakeout. I go
run, hit my pads. As I'm on the
treadmill, I'm like, "God, I'm like, I
don't feel great this morning. Like, I'm
kind of like achy, right, Shannon? I'm
running. I sneeze. Bro, when I sneeze,
threw my back out. What? Threw my back
out. I sneezed so violently."
That's like a baseball player doing a
mess like that.
Yes. I sneeze so violently. My back went
out. So now I'm stuck hunched over. Mind
you, at 1:00 a.m. tonight, I've got to
walk to that octagon and fight Derrick
Lewis. You can't lose a main event on
the day. So then they come and they they
massage me. They give me a stem cell
treatment. They get me up in about
around 5:00 in the afternoon. I go
fight. One month after that, I'm in the
gym training. I kick Kane's leg. He
checks it. Tingle goes all the way up my
The the the the the disc sits on my
sciatica. Now I'm paralyzed almost. And
from that moment on, I just was not the
same guy. It took one incident, a
sneeze, essentially ended my career
because I never want to fight again,
right? Stipe beat me the next time, then
he beat me the following time. It's like
I never It was that one thing. So, I
think these guys while they're playing
longer have an ability to go longer, but
it'll be one thing. LeBron,
yes. If LeBron gets hurt,
it's not going to be like when he got
hurt in his 20s. He's really going to
struggle to bounce back
because when you're younger, the ability
to bounce back, I mean, an injury that
would keep you down a day, all of a
sudden it's two, three days or maybe
it's a week. And a injury that would
keep you down a week when you're younger
is keeping you down two weeks or maybe
even a month. The body just doesn't
with the football like when you how old
were you when you retired?
I was uh I was I was going to turn 36 in
2 months.
So, you were still relatively young. In
today's game though, you'd have played
three more years.
Right. But how did the how did
Because because they don't in training
camp, we had, you know, we was outside
twice a day. We hitting we have some
days we have two a day practices.
They don't even hit no more.
No, no, no, no. They don't they don't
hit no more. We we we hit. We They were
for real real here. And we hit for real
real in college and we hit for real real
in high school. So,
but I think it got our bodies used to
taking that. We didn't have these little
ticky tack injuries that these guys get
do you think that because you didn't
have the wear and tear?
That you know, say if you had gotten to
this like in your 20 like I think Jon
Jones started like 20.
John Jones was Jon Jones started at like
Yeah. Do you think because you didn't
have the wear and tear because like you
said even though you got I mean you had
a short chef life. Really? You only had
like eight years?
Yeah. Yeah. I fought for eight years,
right? I was the champ. I was in the
championship for eight years. I fought
for the belt those last two years. That
didn't mean I was necessarily in the
picture, right? I was fighting for the
belt because I have the name value. I
was fighting for the belt in Anaheim
because I was the champion, right? I had
to defend. Sure, I was beating Stipe,
but man, by that
that old monkey jump on my back in the
third round. Sh. I was beating the [&nbsp;__&nbsp;]
out of him. By the third round, the
monkey jump on my back. I was like, "Yo,
I am exhausted. I'd never felt it
Wow. Yeah. It was crazy. It was It is
the scariest thing that you could ever
imagine in your life. I've been in some
some hairy situations
inside that octagon
not having the energy to fight
cuz that dude wants to kill you.
If that like if that referee don't take
him off of you, he going to keep beating
you up.
Like seriously, like that's how you got
to approach fighting,
So it's like it that's a scary when
you're like you get off that stool and
you're like, "Oh my god, I don't know
how if I got 10 more minutes and scary."
I forget who it was, but I remember
there was some lady that she like woke
she's like I was in the ring and I
realized I didn't want to fight anymore.
I was like you probably want like in
training or or maybe even the night
in the back.
Yes. But you don't in the ring and she I
forget her name. Um
she fought.
She got knocked out, didn't she?
She lost.
She lost. Uh Misha Misha Tate.
Misha Tate. Yep. Misha Tate. Yep. I
remember her saying that
and I was like,
"Boy, that's an awful time to find out
you don't want to do something when
you're actually doing it."
Yeah. There's some questions before.
Yeah. Every time.
Oh, yeah. For sure.
Every time you There's some questions. I
used to watch I used to watch Floyd and
all them dudes like in the ring before
when they're introducing them like, "How
do they do that? How do they find calm
in this with everything going on around
with what's at stake?"
And I was like, man, I I couldn't do it.
But then I I would I would walk to that
It's the mo like you know like you know
right and that's why people that's what
people don't understand when you hit
that tunnel for a Super Bowl or you hit
that tunnel for a big game your whole
body's on fire.
Oh yeah. Yeah. You you you got
goosebumps.
You got goosebumps everywhere.
What's going through your mind
Shannon? I'm in the back every time and
I would go in same routine. I'm from
Louisiana superstitious. I go in the
back and I go to sleep. People would
look at me like, "How can you sleep
knowing that in three hours you're going
to go fight for a world championship?"
But I knew that my preparation I left I
left no stalling turn. I done
everything. So the result was done,
Either I was going to win or I was going
to lose because
it wasn't going to be something that you
did in that room. And in that 3 hours,
how do you settle yourself? I said,
"Because I'm ready." But they would I
would be in the back. I'd get up. I do
my warm-up. Then they would tell me,
"All right, DC, you walk in a minute."
He start hearing music and all right DC
we're walking in 5 4 3 2 1 and it's just
nerves I'm like how many times should I
have gone left I went to college Shannon
how did I end up here fighting
man I hit that curtain thousands of
people 18,000 the UFC does an amazing
job of walking you through the crowd
and the energy is just electric and
they're reaching for you and they're
they want a piece of you right
and and I couldn't I couldn't even
handle it I would run to the octagon
because it's just too much. I'm already
jazzed. I can't take in any more energy
before I step in there.
Do you see them? Cuz a lot of times like
you get you get into a zone DC and you
know, like you said, like you don't even
you don't even see the people. It's like
a calm. Like I'm in a game and it's like
a calm. I don't even hear the crowd.
It's like everything is just like hush
and all of a sudden you catch a pass,
you catch a touchdown and it's ah yes,
it's great. But I could like I can't see
him because I'm I'm focused
purposely tunneling on the octagon and
have the ability to go second. So the
guy that I'm fighting is already in
there. Right.
Right. So I'm not standing there waiting
trying to So I'm I'm going second. When
I hit that when I hit that that freaking
uh when I hit that um that step, those
I'd walk up and I tap the tab the
octagon. That was some football [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] we
used to do. Always hit play like a champ
today, right? Like I always tap the
octagon. I go in there,
bro. There's Bruce. Bruce is dressed to
the dime.
There's some commissioners making sure
we don't fight before. And then when
they do the last instructions and you
turn around,
there's a pen that they dropped to lock
the cage. It It makes that sound right
there that he just dropped,
I could hear it. 20,000 in the arena.
And you could still hear that pen.
I could hear that pen. And then I would
say to myself, I swear to God, I would
be like, "Somebody got to die in this.
It ain't going to be me." Swear to God.
Every time I be like, "Somebody going to
die in here." Like
I'm about to make you go make you go
unlock that gate.
Yes, my goal is to make you unlock.
You either jump over this, you either
jump over to run away from me or they
going to pull me off of you by the time
this is done, right?
And then that was always my approach
because you had to look at it like life
and death.
You just had to. I had so many things. I
wouldn't eat. I would like abstain from
sex. I wanted to be as primal as I could
be going into the octagon.
When you cut Okay, you're the light
heavy that weight is 205. So now, so
what are you coming down from? You
coming from 230? You coming from 235?
You coming from 250? Where you coming
from? Deep
my nutritionist was at my house for a
fight I was supposed to have in January,
but I got hurt the day before
Thanksgiving. He had a turkey brine. A
turkey and a brine. It was in a big old
it was white though. Shannon, he was
going to make us Thanksgiving dinner,
but it was not going to be seasoned.
I got hurt right before Thanksgiving,
man. We took that turkey, rinsed all
that [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] off, made it ourself, and
seasoned it. The next day, I weighed 257
lbs. What?
I weigh I weighed 257, bro.
And you got to be 205 in January.
January 19th, I weighed in at 204.7.
I was 257.
What the heck?
I was huge. I was big, but like I wasn't
Yeah, I know. That's a lot of weight in
in a small area, DC.
But but when I would walk into the
octagon, you could see where the power
was in my ass and my legs.
It was like that all this.
You're really explosive.
Exactly. And it was all in this. Right.
While I was the shorter guy, short arms.
I had my torso is not tall, right?
But like it's in my legs and that's why
the explosiveness was always so on on
display. Yeah. It was good. But it was
the He has the best.
It's like walk dude when you're on when
you're on that sideline in the national
anthem playing that feeling. Yes.
That's what we're feeling, bro. It's the
best. It's it lit. I've
That's why so many fighters end up on
drugs and messed up because you can't
You can't You can't replicate that.
No, you can't. And that's why athletes
struggle once they leave their said
sport is because you're never going to
be able to replicate 20,000, 80,000,
however many thousand. You're never
going to be able to replicate the locker
room. You're never going to be able to
replicate the bus rides, the plane
rides, just the camaraderie. Now, I
don't know.
But that's what you missed the most.
That's what you literally missed the
practices and afterwards just sitting
there talking.
Yeah. Yeah. I didn't miss the games. I
mean, the money was nice, but you just
missed the camaraderie, the laughing and
joking. You in the line stretching and
doing all those things. Yep.
You mentioned Anaheim. Y
you fought Jon Jones. I think you were
35 and he was 27.
Yep. Yep.
If you guys were comparable ages, is
that fight different?
I think I think there are a lot of I
think there are a lot of reasons why he
beat me. He's I mean, have you met Jon
I haven't.
Jon Jones is probably 65 6'4 65.
Jon Jones's arms are 84 in apart. His
reach. Wow. Mine are 72. Yeah. So like
he was taller like a so even if even at
the same age he would still be taller.
Um two of his brothers played in the
NFL. One was like really good Chandler.
so I think I would be better because I
would be younger. But I don't know if I
could have been better in Anaheim
because I trained so hard because he
beat me the first time.
I've never been better. I when he beat
me I was better.
That was the best you'd ever been.
I'd never been better. I would have beat
everybody else in the world in and in
all those weight classes. I was never
better than that night and he beat me.
And even the fight up to the point that
he got me, it was just super
competitive,
Joe Rogan said something to the effect
of, "You can clearly see you're watching
the two best lightweights we've ever
seen in an octagon, right?
Because we were both so locked in." So,
I don't know that the age made as much
of a difference because I just think
that he has a lot of built-in advantages
with his height and his reach and he's
got great timing and he's tough, dude.
He's very tough, Shannon. Like, I would
club him upside the head and he would
just keep fighting.
He would just and not many did that.
And that's what I want. What makes him
because like you say, okay, he's he's
6'4 and a half. He's 6'5, 84 in reach.
Um, he can punch you. He can take you
down. See, he don't hit very hard
though, but his hands,
he does not punch hard.
No, he does not punch hard. He He So, we
were I went into the fight. I talked to
Rashad Evans, right? And Rashad goes,
"He doesn't hit hard, but he has other
weapons." So, we first start fighting
the first time. We trade jabs because I
had a real unique ability because of my
athleticism to get to the jab even
though the guy was taller. So, we jab
each other
and my nose started bleeding. I was
like, "Well, why my nose bleeding? He
hit hard. My [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] bleeding. His [&nbsp;__&nbsp;]
bleeding for different reasons. But um
Oh, there you go.
Ignore that.
[Applause]
You got you got to think that with
So my [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] bleeding, right? And I'm
like, "Why is my nose bleeding?" I was
like, "Why my [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] bleeding?" So anyhow,
he uh we start fighting and I'm like,
"Okay, but I got to pressure him because
I'm shorter,
Yo, you got to walk through some razors
to get to him.
He's got knees. Yes. That you. So, by
the time I get in,
I've been kneading the body three times.
I've been elbowed two times. So, now I
get off. I get my [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] going. And then
we get apart. So, now I got to go all
through the razors again to get my
offense going again. That's what makes
him special. He's a special fighter. He
really is. And I respect him
for what he did inside the Octon. Mainly
because he beat me on that night. like
and you said that's the absolute best
DC has ever ever been.
Shannon, I I was I was in such great
shape. My shoulders were like big. I was
lifting. I was running. I was training
hard. I was conditioned. I mean,
I was well conditioned. I was mopping.
You was ready to go five. If if if five
if five is what is required,
it's going to
cuz we went 25 the first time. Yes.
Right. So I And and my cardio failed me.
Okay. So, I was like, I need to be
better cuz it's going 25 again.
And then ultimately, he got me with the
head kick. But,
uh, I was in shape, man. I was ready to
go. My mind was strong. Everything was
ready to go get the job done
on that night. But, he was he he got it
done. He was
What about him at What if y'all had
moved up? Y'all similar in age. Let's
just say for the sake of argument,
you're three years apart and now y'all
move up and y'all fight heavyweight.
Nah, he he wouldn't beat me at
heavyweight.
He couldn't beat you? I don't think so
because I was good at heavyweight. I
think I was probably better.
And you're probably a natural
heavyweight there.
My natural weight. I was like my natural
weight. But he almost admitted it. He he
he said in the time that we were
fighting, he goes,
"No, I'm not going to fight him at
heavyweight. That would be giving him
the advantage."
He goes, "He's bigger than me
naturally." And he goes, "No." But then
like a couple weeks ago, he was talking
about me fighting. I was like, "Bro, I'm
45 years old, man. I'm 46 now. Go fight
the dude that want to fight you." Like,
they got a big old
Oh, he want to fight you not
heavyweight.
You talking about I would have beat I
would beat DC at heavyweight. Yo, I've
been I've been retired for 5 years, my
Go fight somebody else. Like, I'm good.
Pick on somebody your own side.
Go fight Tom Aspenol.
When you and John got into it at the at
the uh the presser,
the very first
What happened?
Damn. DC.
Hey Shannon,
it's so funny because
MMA has struggled to encapture the urban
It really has.
John and I are going to fight the first
time. John and I have had a we we've
always had a history of not getting
along great.
So when the press conference happened,
we came forward at the forehead. I
pushed him. He pushed me. We flew off
the octagon. That was right in the
middle of football season in every
sports center. Everything led with that.
Cuz it was that big.
Lorenzo Patina told me, he goes, "You
guys would have made so much money." He
goes, "You made great money in January,
but it was 6 months." He goes, "If y'all
fought in September," he goes, "you
can't imagine how much money you would
have made on pay-per-view."
But cuz the fire had died down a little
bit after 6 months passed.
But we had that moment where the cameras
the cameras kept recording, right?
It was just and we just didn't like each
other. But after the fight, I was in New
York, New Jersey, walking around like I
would always do. And that's when I
realized that being in there with him
had changed the way the public perceived
Cuz I'm in a very urban neighborhood,
very black, and everybody's like, "Hey,
hey, hey." But I think it was because of
what we did for each other. It hate each
other, dislike each other. We did great
business and we did elevate each other
to the to the point that when I fought
Stipe, I was able to elevate him,
Because of the name recognition I got
from fighting John.
Look, the elephant in the room um I saw
Demetrius Johnson says because Jon
Jones, the steroid is tied to his name.
He can't be in the GO conversation.
I don't believe that. I don't believe
that he should be considered the
greatest ball type. I've said that you
can't you can't
Shannon steroids
in fighting is much different than
anything else in the world.
They make you stronger. They make you
faster. They give you endurance,
recovery ability when you train.
That's what you That's what it that's
mainly what steroids does. It allows you
to go to there and go hard and go hard
tomorrow and go hard the day after and
go hard the day after and go hard the
day after. That's when you grow. That's
when you become better. Y
because it gets to a point where you're
like, damn, I I just I can't get I can't
give you everything today.
But you can go back to back to back.
And that was me at 36, right? Even
though I was the best I could ever be.
The best I could ever be. I'm working as
hard as I could ever work in my life
knowing that I have to be ready. At 36,
he's 28. Right.
So, he's in his prime.
He's in his prime. But that's the fight
that he actually tested positive and
they made it a no contest.
Mhm. So, while he's doing that, it's
like, like you said, he's able to keep
up with me work-wise, but exceed it
because at a point I got to say, "Hey,
coach, I got to take a morning, man. I
need it. I have to I have to take a
and I don't know that he would need to
do that." Yeah. So, I I don't I don't I
don't uh
Did you suspect at the time when you
were in there with him that there's
something that might not be on the up
and up?
No, no, no, no. I didn't suspect. He
felt like him. He felt like he was
always strong,
He was always strong. He was always big.
He was always in shape. It wasn't
nothing that surprised me.
What sucked was that was that I I felt
like I moved past it, right? Like, okay,
this dude beat me twice. This shit's
over. Like, there's nothing I'm going to
do to be the champ. Because
if I can't beat him, nobody else has
beaten him.
Hey, that's the truth, right? I was
like, yo, if I ain't beating him, the
rest of these dudes ain't beating them
because I know how much,
Cuz when I fight the other ones, I
destroy them.
Cuz they don't have the tool. tool. They
don't have the toolbox he got now.
And plus, he's 6'5, 6'4 and a half. He's
long long limbs and he like he he has it
all. I mean, you can elbow, you need
If he if you write a checkbook, a
checklist of what you want in a fighter
at 205 to heavyweight,
Jon Jones, they're talking about the
White House. They're talking about a
White House fight card.
Hey man, we got to have some Americans
I don't you I don't like Jon Jones. It's
no secret. The whole world knows it,
right? I said, "Man, y'all better put
Jon Jones on there because right now we
ain't got one American in the top 10
pound for pound." I said, "If y'all want
an American dude to go get a victory,
put Jon Jones in there because he going
to win. That's what he does."
But I at the end of the day, I still
don't believe, and I agree with DJ. It's
like you just can't have that tied to
your name, especially in fighting,
And people call you the greatest of all
He's the greatest talent,
the sport has ever seen.
Have we That's what I was about to ask
you. Have we ever seen someone in that
sport that possessed the arsenal that he
No. He's by far the He's by far the most
talented person that we've had in mixed
martial arts in terms of his his length,
his skills, his mind. He's the most
talented guy we've ever had. We've had
great fighters. Demetrius Johnson was
amazing. Kabib is amazing. But Kabib did
it through grit, determination, and hard
work. He wasn't Kabib wasn't going to
run a basketball and shoot it. Jon
Jones. They got a video of Jon Jones
trying to dunk a basketball. You should
see that. That's bad. But obviously he's
he's an athlete. Look at his family.
Yes. Right. Got two brothers playing in
the NFL.
Yeah. Yeah. He he was he's the best
athlete we ever had. In terms of stero
in terms of the best fighter of all
time, I would never give that because of
that. Now, he's not the only guy that
fought on steroids. I think that before
they started doing all that testing,
all those guys were doing steroids.
I really do. They just they I mean many
of them had popped for steroids before
and I fought them
and they had they had figured out a way
how to cycle on and off without
getting cycle on and off or
uh cycle on and off or they just weren't
I I I never took a drug test until I got
into the UFC. I just went and fought.
So, I don't know what those guys were
doing. There was a guy No, no, they said
that this guy got tested positive for
something. They said USADA, who was the
testing commissioner at the time, bro,
they got a bit they got a bit like
I know when they're coming, right?
They would come at 6:00 a.m. in the
morning and I did I got tested 65 times
from USADA
from wrestling to then. But look at me.
I'm not on steroids.
But they were you hitting the numbers. I
said that publicly one time way back in
the day. The next time they came to my
house at 4:00 in the afternoon. So they
were watching but they because they had
gotten like repetitive. They they heard
fighters doing it. One guy popped for
something. Shannon, they got him at 10
PM. They said if they would have let him
go to bed and wake up the next morning,
they could have tested him, it'll have
been gone. 12 hours.
12 hours for that to get out of his
system. It's crazy the level of stuff
they have out there.
Well, it's just like anything. I mean,
they're going to come up with something
that that's in and out. They got these
peptides now.
See, and you didn't you didn't think it
was going to be you thought it was going
to have all that bite to it.
I don't drink.
No, it don't got it don't have any bite.
It don't have any bite. But the the
viral video of you finding out that he
test positive and
you you like you was just so broken
heartbroken. It's like you It's like
losing your first girlfriend. I had a
girlfriend growing up and when me and
her we went crazy, right? You
you have sex for the first time.
It is all you want to do. I'm checking
myself out of school, man, to go meet
this girl. She's checking herself out of
school. She's up in the middle of the
night on the phone because her mom
doesn't let her use the phone.
Our parents took us together. They found
out what we were doing,
They sat us in the front yard and told
us we could not see each other anymore.
That made
That's what it felt like.
Let me tell you something. I'm on the
city bus getting over that.
I'm telling my 35 cents, man. I'm going
to her house. Who doesn't mama go to
work? And you said
it was like that.
I will sign a waiver. I want to fight
Heartbroken because I know how hard I
had worked. Again, it was just like
Anaheim. I worked so hard to prepare
We are. When you're fighting,
that's your business partner. Imagine
you're playing the Kansas City Chiefs
and on Sunday they just don't show up.
Think about it.
We done practice all week
that they just don't show up,
But your game check is tied to them
showing up.
Now you're like, "Hey man, you're
hurting my business. I know what the
first check looked like when we fought,
I want that second check."
And then by the hopefully we go a third
time. You know what I'm saying? It's
that was the her of it. And then it was
UFC 200, man. We was on We were on Good
Morning America together. It was big.
And I was like, "Man, we need a It was I
was heartbroken because it's not just
me. It was my entire team that worked so
hard to make sure I was prepared to
fight that night. So yeah, I said, "I'll
sign whatever I need to." But Dana was
like, "Come on." Dana was like, "You
can't do that." You could tell he didn't
want to tell me that. You could tell it
was like he was like, "Can I talk to
you?" I was like, "What do you need me
to? What do you need?" I was staying at
the MGM signature cuz I always stayed
like at that small little one on the
He goes, "Can you come over to the arena
right now?" And I was like, "Why?" I was
like, "It's 2:00 in the afternoon." He
goes, "I want you to I have to talk to
you about something really important."
So, I walk over with my team and he's in
the back in that hallway and he tells me
and he goes, "We have to talk to the
media." I was like, "Damn, this
everything's in place and I didn't
know." I was still just going about my
day like I was going to go cut weight to
make for the fight.
And he was like, "You have to address
the media." It was horrible.
I was up there crying and [&nbsp;__&nbsp;]
Yeah, I know. People, man, DC, what you
crying for?
DC crying every time. All these these do
is cry. They got me crying multiple
Did you drive home
from from
from Or did you fly after you found out
that the fight?
No. No. I fought I fought. Remember I
fought Anderson Silva two days later.
They got Anderson to fight. Yeah. Which
was good. I actually I got to fight
Anderson Silva which was awesome. But
thank God Anderson said yes. Not many
people would have done it.
No. No.
Not two days. No. But but is it hard
because you're fighting a a fight
because a lot I've seen people take
fights on short notice and kick the
other fighter's ass because he's not
prepared to fight that guy. You prepared
to fight a guy with one style and this
guy has a different style and you're
and something bad could have happened.
So I was surprised you even took that.
So I took the fight because I want I
dude I wanted to fight bad like when you
want you want to fight. You want the
check and you want to fight.
You want the check but you want to fight
right cuz that's what you do.
I got all that weight. I was already 215
pounds. Like I don't want to go through
all that, right? And then two months
they go, you got to do it again. Right.
Because as a champion, I would fight
two times a year max. Yes.
Right. So I'm like, I don't want to have
to go through that again. So I would I I
I fought Anderson and it it wasn't a
great fight because again, I was so
dude? I was in the octagon. I looked
across and I was like the very first UFC
I ever went to, I went to Philadelphia
to watch Anderson Silva beat Forest
Griffin. And I mean, Anderson was
flexing on him. He's like moving
sideways, punching him with one hand
force is just falling down. He finishes
the guy that was the UFC light
heavyweight champion. I was like,
"Damn, this is crazy. I'm fighting
Anderson."
I'm in the octagon. I go to the middle.
When I walk back to the side, I look
behind me and I said, "Oh my god, that's
actually Anderson Silva standing over
Like seriously,
I'm really fighting a legend.
I'm really fighting Anderson Silva.
Yeah. That was the first I've never had
that happen to me in my my life. It was
always somebody's got to die. Except for
when I fought Anderson, I was like,
you're like, I don't want to beat this
I got to fight Anderson Silva. But then
once I got then I started trying to kick
No, I never had that problem.
You don't take You don't take it easy,
don't do
Dan Henderson was my idol. He was on the
Olympic team. I choke him unconscious.
Damn, D.
I beat the [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] out of him.
You don't feel bad?
Hell no. Somebody got to die, Jay.
Somebody got to get it right. Will you
play your brother in football? If you
play st.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We grow. Oh,
you want to lose?
No. I'm trying to kill him. I'm trying
to kill him. And we love each other.
Tell him about it afterward.
John retires and everybody's like, "Hold
on, bro. You retired." And then two
weeks later, you talking about you in
protocol again, testing protocol.
Yeah. Yeah.
That pissed you off, didn't it?
So, when he retired, it it didn't I just
wanted him to I wanted to see him fight
Tom Aspenol. I just want him I wanted to
see him fight Tom
Aspenol. That good? He good, Shannon. He
literally has everything you want in a
heavyweight. He's big. He's physical. He
can wrestle. He's fast.
I Michael Bisping
once said to me, "Oh man, I'm telling he
could be like Muhammad Ali MMA." I said,
"Man, you going crazy." I said, "You
You're a person that works at the
company. You're a person that take
people take your opinion seriously. You
cannot be that strong on one side." He
goes, "I swear it's true." He's fighting
a guy uh named Sergey who had knocked
out 10 straight people. Nobody could go
around with Sergey. Tom Aspenog knocks
him out in a round. Walks into the thing
and hugs Michael Bismick. I was like, I
thought I said Bismick, I thought you
were like his advocate. You advocating
for this dude. But I'm like, he's
actually that good, right? And then he
beats up on Curtis Blades. He beats
everybody.
And so when I think about it, I'm like,
okay, now we get to see John. Because
John and I did this thing called counter
punch where he sat on one side, I sat on
the other with Joe Rogan.
And John said
it it was so it was crazy cuz we just
hated each other so much. We were just
John said to me, he said, "At the end of
the day,
I'm better than you because I'm
younger." He goes,
"You can't beat me in the basketball
game." I go, "Well, that's debatable.
you know, you can't out swim me, you
can't outrun me. He said, because every
day you wake up, you're a day older and
you look in the mirror and you see a 36
year old man and I look in, I'm in my
absolute prime. I'm 28.
He said, "You can't be better than me
because the laws of life don't allow for
a 36-y old man to be better than a 28-y
old man when we're doing the same
Tom Aspenol is 30 now. Jon Jones is 38.
Not a person. I want to see it on the
opposite side
because he said and he said, "Well, he
should be favored because you know he's
much younger and I've heard you and
other fighters say, "Well, you were you
the whole time
the older guy gave you an opportunity."
He dropped the ladder.
So, return the favor and give this guy.
You don't think there's any chance that
Jon could beat him?
I do. That's the problem. If I had I
said to my I said gun to my head, if I
had to choose, I would probably say Jon
Jones would win. Wow. It's all I've seen
him do. I've seen him fight. He's right.
He's everyone. This is always the next
best guy. This guy's going to beat me.
This guy's going to beat Jon Jones. And
what does Jon do? He vanquishes him. He
beats him.
They said it about Gustin.
They said about Gustin. Say it about me.
Said it about Rashad. Said it about
Rampage. Said it about Sir Gan. I mean,
he dirty sir Gan up.
I mean, the man been away for a 100
years and and walked through Sir Gan
like he was like sir Gan was me. That
was embarrassing to DC. DC that was
DC that was embarrassing.
I be trying to stay off of Cereal, man.
Cuz I like Sirill. Yo, when Sirill was
on the ground and he looked at him like
I was like he looked like he saw a
ghost. He was so in awe of John that he
couldn't even compete with him. I was
like, "Bro, he about to fight for the
world title again." Imagine if imagine
if Sir Gan went win and John go, "Okay,
okay, I'm back."
Well, that'll piss somebody off. That
would piss people off cuz if Sirill
beats Tom cuz he's Sirill is that good.
He is.
He's that good. He could beat Tom
No, but Dana Dana ain't going to let
that happen.
What if John's like, "Yo, all right.
You know, you know Dana won't let that
happen. Dana will not let Jon come back
and fight Sir for the heavyweight
title." He like, "No, no, no. You got to
fight. You got to fight."
The ultimate move of all time. I would
laugh at that [&nbsp;__&nbsp;]
I would be happy. Like, John, do you you
you'll be cold for that one. Yeah. Okay.
You say you can't put uh uh John as as
your goat. Give me about Rushmore
Demetrius Johnson. Okay. George St.
Kabib was undefeated. Nobody beat him.
God, that's where it gets tough. That's
where it gets tough cuz you feel like
you want to put like when we talk about
just accomplishments, no one's more
accomplished than Amanda Nunees,
right? Can Can I really put her on the
Mount Rushmore of fighting? But George,
Demetrius, Kabib,
God, there are some good guys. Chuck
Liddell was good, man. Chuck Liddell's
kind of responsible for us being there.
Randy Coutur won two titles in his
bracket. I think that fourth place would
belong to one of those guys. I think
somebody like that because
I I can't put I would never put myself
up there. Right. Right. Right.
But I'm like right in that
Right. four to seven range of
I thought you might put Anderson.
Anderson had the Anderson had the
steroid. Yeah. Right. Like I can't put
Anderson. Like I would like to put
Anderson. If if I'm saying all those
guys included then obviously John and
Anderson are on that Mount Rushmore,
I don't do that. I don't I refuse it.
It's not in fighting.
Barry Bonds was a Hall of Famer before
he even went to San Francisco.
Right. Yeah.
Plus he's hitting with a baseball bat.
He's not punching someone right
in the face.
Women fighters.
What did What did Ronda Rousey do for
Everything for women. Dana on record
said, "I will never have women fighting
in the UFC or something very close to
Then Ronda came along and she just
opened up the floodgates. Yes. And now
Dana goes very in his life very rarely
does he make decisions where he's like I
really messed up. He openly goes Ronda
Rousey coming and and making me take on
female fighting is one of the best
decisions I've ever made cuz it gave me
Amanda Nunez gave me Jean Lee Valentina
Chevchenko. It's like all these women
have an opportunity because of Ronda.
No Ronda Rousey like I don't know if
women still today fight in the UFC.
That's how important she is. Could she
have been better?
I think she was at the right time also,
The girls just weren't well-rounded
enough to compete with her.
And when she got somebody that was
wellrounded,
they they you saw what Amanda did to
I saw what Holly Holmes kicked
Holly kicked her in the head.
That That was probably the beginning of
the end, wasn't it?
Yeah. Well, you know, again, like you
know when it's done, but at the end is
when the money gets better than it's
ever been.
So, yeah. She couldn't have beat him. If
she couldn't have beaten Holly, she was
not going to beat Amanda.
No. But I think it was just such a great
pull to have her back that she did it.
You mentioned this, the UFC at the White
Dana, look, I was at the uh when they
had it at the sphere.
Oh, you went, huh?
I went. It was It was amazing. It was
amazing. And I wouldn't put anything if
if Dana say they going to have a fight
on the moon.
I don't know what airline flying to the
but it's going to happen.
It's going to happen. If he says they're
going to have it on the White House lawn
now, I don't know how they going to pat
everybody down and frisk everybody, do
background checks because and maybe it's
just closed circuit and they're really
only a handful of staff there.
No, no, I think it's going to be an
event. They said they want 20,000 in
at the White House.
At the White House.
They got an Easter egg hunt at the White
House when they put 28,000 on the
Easter. Look,
but them kids
I didn't Hey Shannon, I swear to God.
Shannon, I swear to God, I I was not
believing it until I saw that they have
that Easter egg hunt there. I was like,
"Wow." Well, then it's possible because
right now when when Trump goes to a
we get background checks.
The night before they go to the arena,
they're sweeping. They sweep it. The
morning of the fight before he shows up.
I I don't know. But
they I told Dana this recently. We were
in New Orleans and I said,
"You're going to the White House for
real." He goes, I said, "Because you
said we got a year, we're a year away."
He was talking about He was talking
about something on an interview and he
goes, "We still got a year. The world's
going to change in MMA by that point." I
said, "You're speaking indefinite." I
go, "This is happening." Yeah, we're
going to go We're going to go watch a
fight at the White House. That's crazy.
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You said, "Look, we don't have really
any Americans in the pound-for-pound top
10. And if we just can't have, you know,
Barners coming in and winning all the
fights at at the White House.
No, we got to win.
So, we got to you got to put Jon Jones.
Put John there.
Call C. I'm calling him Captain America.
somebody got to win.
But Dana don't But Dana wants for sure
thing. Knows that guys are going to be
he can count on.
I think he's I think he's going to fight
at the White House. He has to.
He has to fight at the White House.
Aspenol. Don't I mean I don't know why
he won't fight this dude. I I I said
this D if I was still fighting I'd have
fought Tom Aspenol already. I just would
have did it. Like the bigger the
challenge the better. It's like
go prove yourself. But I don't know why
he'll do it. But he might have to fight
Tom A. Like you said Dana's going to
make him fight Tom.
What I mean how much money would they
need for uh uh DC to come out of
retirement to fight at the White House?
I cannot fight. They got 20 million for
I'm still not doing it. [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] I can't
train. I can't train. I go, dude. I'm
doing CrossFit. I do live. I I was just
today practicing how I'm going to do
sumo uh deadlifts. I'm like, I'm doing
sumo deadlifts. I'm like, that's I'm
just getting excited to go do my sumo
deadlifts. Jay, I can't fight cuz I
can't I can't I was I was sparring the
other day. I started I started a team,
okay, of guys that I'm training, helping
career their careers.
I was sparring. One of them punched me
in my rib with a straight right hand.
Boom. Right here. Dude, it was the most
painful shot I taken. My rib come out.
Right. My rib come out.
I'm in pain. Sh. I can't get off my
couch. I'm just like, uh, every time I
get off my couch, I'm rolling to my
to then push up because I can't squeeze
my core. Right. Every time I squeeze my
cord hurts, man. I get I go I go take a
nap. I'm just sleeping, I guess. And I'm
because I'm sleeping rolling. I sleep. I
roll over the top of it, pop it back in
place. But I'm like, I couldn't do this
every day like I used to.
I always had separated ribs or black
eyes, and I I just couldn't do that
anymore. It's too This This life is too
comfortable what I do now,
You make good living. You don't need to
go big punch, kick.
I don't want to fight no more, man.
Plus, like, come on. Go put some pads
on. Go tackle somebody.
No, no, no. You know what I'm saying?
You want to ask me?
Two artificial heels, bone bone. I'm I'm
The pain is too great. I think that's
what people take for granted, like how
great the pain is that we endure to do
what we did,
It it sucks.
I mean, before I got my hips replaced,
DC, I just thought the pain that I was
in was normal because I had dealt with
it for so long.
And you get to and you're like, "Okay,
this is my new normal." And then the
doctor says, "No, you don't have to live
like that."
How much better does it feel?
A thousand.
I mean, there was no position that I
could get in that was comfortable. If I
lay down, it hurt. If I stood, if it
hurt, it walked, it hurt. Sitting hurt.
Standing too long, it hurt. There was no
position in which my body didn't hurt.
My hips didn't hurt.
That's bad. I got I don't have that.
Thank God I don't have that.
cuz that that [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] seems so big.
It is. What about What about Conor
McGregor at the White House?
Okay. [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] man. It's over, bro.
It's It's over for him.
It's over, dog. There, man. Man, this
dude Conor McGregor be he is tripping.
Conor McGregor tripping.
He made too much money, huh?
He made way too much. He went from
plumbing to making he sold that liquor
for what? 500 million.
It's too much,
right? He got 100 million for fighting
Got 100 million for fighting Floyd. Then
he was doing pay-per-views like nothing.
And him and Kabib did two and a half
million pay-per-views.
These dudes, he made too much money.
Connor says he wants to fight all the
time and everybody kind of they jump to
it, but it's like he wants to stay
relevant, right?
He wants to stay in the news. He wants
to stay he wants the notoriety of being
Conor McGregor without having to be
Conor McGregor, right?
And that kind of sucks because when he
was the man, I bet you tapped in
I bet you tapped into the UFC more than
because he could because he could sell a
He could sell a fight.
He could sell it. But him and Kabib was
the best.
Did you think he was just onedimensional
and that's why
he was good? He was very good.
But when when they got him on the
ground, DC, he couldn't get up.
They couldn't get him on the ground.
Yeah, they did.
Kabib got him on the ground.
That Kabib was a different person,
though. Like
him and Kabib really didn't like each
other. That's per, you know, sometimes
you like, oh, we just selling the fight.
But it seemed that it it was add it was
a little more to it. Like he like Khabib
sincerely and genuinely did not like
He hates he won't say his name still
today. He still does not say his name
because of what he said about his
religion and about dad.
He still won't say his name. Last week
he did an interview in New York.
He says this guy, he'll never say his
name. He hates him. Dude, they're in the
octagon and Connor goes, he whispers
after the third round after Kabib, it's
just business. Kabir goes, "No, it
ain't. No, it ain't. You don't mess with
them dudes, man. Them Russian dudes
there. And then when he like when he had
him the the ref the ref had to do a
little bit extra. DC you saw that DC he
he was going to let him he wasn't going
to let him go.
He was going to put him to sleep.
Shannon he was holding him and he said I
kicked your ass. I kicked your ass and
he kind of was like then he jumped over
the fence.
And try to beat his team.
He thought he I was like whoa. But dude
he had him. He was not going to let him
go because he felt so his family got so
disrespected by this dude that he wanted
to end him. And and honestly, sometimes
you bite off more than you could chew.
Cuz cuz Connor got beat bad that night.
He did. He got beat bad.
I mean, and the thing But here's the
thing that that shocked a lot of people.
Connor made Kabib He really did make
Kabib the biggest a bigger star. Yeah.
Like we talked about me and Jones, he
Khabib went from I think he had two or
three million followers on Instagram.
The next morning 10 million.
After that fight and all that happened.
10 million.
Crazy. 7 million a night. That's a big
You think Kabib would come out of
retirement?
Kabib told me on we did a thing a while
back where Kabib said they offered him
$40 million to fight. He said no. He
ain't coming back. If if they offered
him 40 mill and he hasn't come back yet,
he ain't coming back.
No. He in Dagistan.
Well, they if they
I bet in Dagistan you can make a million
dollars and be good for the rest of your
Right. In that place.
Well, if they offered Khabib 40 million,
what they offer John Jones to fight
I think they offer John said he wanted
30 and I think they got the money. They
got 30 for him. And he said no.
They got 30 for him. And he said, "Hey,
let me tell you something. I just told
you I'm barbecue meat. 30.
All of a sudden, you don't hurt me.
[&nbsp;__&nbsp;] I might test positive after it's
[Laughter]
What is it about? What is it about
Dagistan that the guys that are they can
wrestle? Now look, I I've seen somebody
followed some of like those wrestler
wrestlers.
They really I'm talking about those guys
that go to the Olympics. That's a whole
different level of wrestling. them do. H
how did they get so good? They just So
over there they put them in wrestling.
They put them in in both styles. Then at
like five, six years old, they identify
like where a kid's going to be better
and that's all they do all the way up
through school. Kabib's Kabib and Islam
started doing sombo when they were super
together. Right. Right. With his dad. So
their whole life they did combat sombo.
Combat Sama was actually like ghee tops
uh punching. Yeah.
Grappling like
they were essentially doing MMA as like
And then
just keep getting better. I I think I
think I think for my son,
have the mentality that I have or had,
it's impossible. His life's too
comfortable.
Yeah. Okay.
His life's too comfortable.
you and and your brother and your to
your children, they can't even make
themselves think like you did growing up
where you grew up and how you grew up,
So, it's like
they they all live like that because
while Kabib I I want to see Kabib's son
and then the next Islam's son
then we could see if how it does over
there because for them it was the way to
And change all of their liv
everybody lives. Yeah.
So when my kids like playing football
and he's like I want to do this and I
want to do this. I go well you got to be
at every practice. You got to go with
your individual coach.
Like you got to go on Sunday whenever
you go do all your speed and agility.
You have to get up early in the morning
to lift weights. I go because while you
are living where you live and how you
live, there's a kid like me
that's doing the same thing but without
the fallback of what my dad did to make
sure that I'm okay when all this is
So I don't know that we can h how how
does Christian McCaffrey develop the
mentality that his father had? Unless
his father came with a whole promote,
you know, Ed, maybe he had a whole bunch
of money,
but I don't know how does he develop
that mentality?
I'm a firm believer when I look at the
Yep. them.
Argie Manning and and and his his and
Peyton and Eli,
they just teach him.
I mean, it it's it's something special
for you to for your dad to have and
says, "No, I want to get it." See, I
still have a healthy respect for
Because he still, you know, he the
likelihood of you having a historically
or a transcendent great parent and then
the child be equally as transcendent and
great, it's just not going to happen.
is great. King Griffy King Griffy senior
was a good baseball player, but he
wasn't junior.
No, he wasn't.
Bobby Barnes was an unbelievable player.
He wasn't Barry.
And so to ask Kareem had son, Magic got
son. To ask their sons, their product to
be just what your dad, it ain't
happening.
So for the dad for for Ken Griffy Jr.
and Barry, their dads were good.
They they just weren't them.
They weren't them. So the second one was
better. But to ask the next one to be
better than the one that's the greatest.
Just imagine Barry Bond's son being
Barry Bonds or better.
No, it's like it's like Vladimir
he was really good. But his son now is
with the same name.
With the same name better than his dad.
That's crazy. So for him to have another
one that does that will be very hard.
But like so
where's like where's Pton's son?
Where's Eli's son? He Pton said his son
went through his camp a couple weeks
ago. I saw that.
But is he
It's gonna be It's gonna be It's gonna
be very I mean, come on.
It's gonna be hard.
Yes. Tom Tom has a son.
But you But here's the thing.
But is Yeah. Right. So just imagine Tom
Brady Tom Brady's son Benjamin
being as good as Tom.
God ain't going to bless you like that,
bro. I'm sorry.
Well, he ain't going to b he ain't going
to bless you like that. That's not
It's I don't think so, man. It's hard.
But they can like like But even for
LeBron James Jr.
to be in the NBA.
It's nuts. And then to have another one
that's supposed to be even better than
the other one.
Yes. But to to to expect him and I think
the thing is
LeBron's done everything right.
Yes. But to expect a child to be LeBron
or Kareem's son to be him or Magic son
to be him, come on, bro. That's not
that's not to happen.
LeBron James Jr. If he can go in, if he
can stay in the league for 10 years,
that to me would be astounding because
And he will. He will.
But to be in there 10 years after what
your dad did with all that pressure,
from the moment he picked up a
basketball, there was pressure on him
cuz the expectation you got to be cuz
everybody know who your dad is. My son
would wrestle and I would see people,
oh, he just I just my kid just beat DC's
son. I'm like, but it's not that DC.
It's not. You didn't, right? I just beat
DC's boy.
I had Kim Griffy Jr. on and when his son
Trey was coming up, he played baseball.
And the people in the stand would say,
"He ain't his dad." And his dad would
say, "Name five people who are." Who?
[Laughter]
Oh, I like that. So, what did what they
what would they say then?
They couldn't say anything. I mean I
mean guy would you know he was an MVP.
He I mean he
he did everything.
Yes. He's one of the greatest he he's
one of the greatest players. I mean the
sweetest swing ever. 600 home. Come on.
He ain't going to be him.
No. And it's and it's okay. But the kid
has to uh accept that that it's okay.
And a lot of people you you were having
we were having a conversation about my
brother. I embraced it. See, I never
lived in the shadow. I embraced it.
Every number he had, I got the exact
same number. He was three in high
school, I was three in high school. He
was two in college, I was two in
college. He was 84, I was 84. Every car
that he had, I got.
So, I never looked at like And when
people told me, I man, you're not going
to be like your brother. Like, watch
watch me
But not many people have that.
Yeah. Yeah. They they
Not many people have that dog in them
like that. Like there's there's a dog
about that mentality that most people
don't have. Yes.
Especially kid Especially a kid that
wakes up and he's sleeping in a
beautiful home
with everything he'd ever want in his
life. Like it's hard for that kid to go.
My kid gets up in the morning at 6:30,
three days a week and he lifts weights,
My kid does wrestling practice at 2:00
in the afternoon. Then he goes to
football practice at 5:30 in the
afternoon. He does that four days a
week. Then on Sundays, he meets with a
with with his private coach to do
football training, right? where he does
speed, agility, right? He catches
passes. He goes through his coverages
and his reads,
For me, that's my son going, "Dad, I
want to try to do something great."
I said, "Pop, if it works, awesome. If
it doesn't, you gave yourself a chance.
That's it.
You took advantage of every opportunity
you had. Everything that we have
accured, you use to try to better
If it works, great. If it doesn't, you
never skipped out on the work, right?
That's all I care about,
And I'm fine with that. And maybe it
does, maybe it doesn't. But he's given
himself a chance even though he doesn't
have to.
That's what I love.
Good. Let me ask you, how did you and
Kabib become such great fans?
That's my boy right there, man. He
walked into the gym. He walked into the
gym by himself.
King Moal
uh brought him from New Jersey. Mhm.
He wanted to come and train with all the
wrestlers. Barely spoke a lick of
Walked in the gym, stayed at uh Extended
State America right up the street from
from uh AKA. And he would walk back and
forth by himself from the the the hotel
to the practice. And on his first day, I
was like, "Oh, a little Russian kid."
Cuz I spent a lot of time there when I
was wrestling. We started kind of
talking a little bit and it just it
grew. And then I just understand how
much of a
he's like a really good human being.
He's a good person, real strong values,
and he's he's the best. I think I think
he's the best fighter ever.
I do. Yeah, I do. I I saw a kid that
came in there with limited striking.
He told you exactly what he was going to
do every single time and he did it. He
was beating Michael Johnson up one time
telling him, "Brother, you know I
deserve a title fight, right?
You need to give up.
Give up."
that's how dominant. And he sat in the
pocket with Connor and knocked Connor
Knocked him down after Connor had boxed
Floyd Mayweather for nine rounds. He he
stood with him and knocked him down.
Yeah, I think he's the best man. I think
he just stands for something so much
bigger than just fighting. And I think
he like I think he I think he uh
I think he he I think he obviously
elevates the people around him, which is
very important.
But he also is like a he's like a
guiding light for a lot of people that
follow him. And he does things the right
Right. There's this viral clip going
around that he refuses to shake this
this lady's hand out of respect for his
Yep. And for his uh his religion his
And if you know his religion, that's
that's that's the way it is.
That's the way it is.
Right. But not many men are willing to
do that, especially in that moment.
Right. Kate Kate uh Kate Scott. Kate
Kate Scott.
She's she's a great analyst.
Yes. But I think the reason it got so
odd was because that kid reacted the way
that he did.
There was a YouTube kid that was up
there with him
and he kind of was like, "Oh my god."
Like speed. I show speed.
And the way he acted was like cuz he
shook everyone's hand. But then he just
politely said
and then I'm pretty sure he explained it
to her afterwards.
And then but again it's live. It's live
TV, right? Things happen.
But that's respect to his wife. And then
obvious honestly respect to Kate. It's
actually a respectful gesture to the
person, right? You're refusing to shake
hands because he as a married man should
not shake the hand of another woman.
What separate Russian fighters from
American fighters?
I don't think that I don't think that I
I don't think that is much more to it
than just the the
that that need to change their lives.
Right. Their need. I mean,
even even in not not I'm not talking
homeless like I'm not talking like
transient people that are living on the
street, but even our upbringing, even
mine where I lived in uh small house
after small house when I was younger.
Then my parents did all they could to
move us into a big house to where they
bought their first house for $10,000. It
wasn't a great house, but it was theirs.
that's still better
than what they have
than what they have over there.
They're like it's all concrete just
concrete stuff.
So yeah, it's like I think it's just
that mentality of need to get better
that makes allows for those guys to to
kind of just elevate themselves a little
more because even my upbringing and I
thought that I had it tough
was better than what they have there and
you know what we people are willing to
do to change their lives
for sure.
Yeah. Um, you and Connor went back and
forth on social media, but you said it's
over for Connor. I mean, the money the
money that he made from Floyd, the money
that he's made off his alcohol, the
money that he that he's making now to go
back into I mean, you're worth $300
million to go in there and it's like,
you know what? I want to get kicked in
my face, hit in my face, elbowed in my
face. Need
Yeah. There's no need there. Yeah. He
doesn't need that. He doesn't need this
Marvin Haggler said, "It's hard to get
up in the morning when you're sleeping
on satin sheets." Right. Way back in the
There there are a few sayings in the
world that are untrue. Yeah. That was
Like that that you know that one where
it's like
to be the champion, you got to defend
the belt. That's [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] Ric Flair
started that.
To beat a man, you got to beat
Yeah. Ric Flair started that, man.
I'll be I'll beat the man that beat the
man and be just as happy.
Give me one belt. The moment they put
that belt on you, you're the champion.
But fighters have actually believed that
Connor it's it's the the the and he's
one of the biggest superstars in the
world. He can't walk into any room
without everybody knowing who he is. So
the access he has,
how's he going to look past all of that
to go in to a training camp to fight,
Especially if he wants to do it right.
Francis Enanu um he was in the UFC, he
left. Yeah, it seems to be there's some
speculation that he might be wanting to
come back.
There was this talk about Francis
fighting John.
Would you like to see that fight?
I I would have. I would have.
Not now.
I would now still. Back then I wanted to
because Francis in his last fight
against Sirill uh he his wrestling
looked better.
But I do believe that if if he fought
Jon that's a more serviceable fight for
Jon because Jon can wrestle, man.
Yes. And he probably would just take
Francis down.
Yeah. You don't want to stay toeto toe
with him.
No. And dude, do you remember when he
would elbow people in back in the day?
he just I think Francis would have have
to knock him out. But Francis could
knock people out, man. I've never seen
anybody hit harder than Franc.
Yeah, he got power.
He's got the most power seen in my life.
He be knocking dudes. Oh, he hit
Alistister over and his head.
The back of his head touched between his
shoulders. He hit him with an uppercut.
the back of his head touched between his
shoulders as he was falling down.
I've never seen anything like it.
But Press is boxed because okay, he uh
Tyson Fury and it gave him some
confidence and then he end up fighting
an Anthony Joshua. He got knocked out,
but he made some money. I mean,
yep. He's the only one that's actually
done that and it worked out because he
was a heavyweight champ,
And and Shannon,
he looks like the heavyweight champ.
Yeah. when he became the champion, I was
like, "Okay, look at him
now. You look like you're looking at the
baddest man on the planet."
Yes, absolutely.
You right. You looking like this dude
Francen Ganu looks like he walk into any
place and you go, "Well, that's a dude
I'm not trying to ain't messing with
And he had he had it. So when he moved
over, it worked. He was the heavyweight
champ. Yeah.
But [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] he dropped Tyson Fury. Yeah.
Remember he knocked him out. I thought
it was over.
man. You should I exploded out of my
But then Anthony Joshua beat him bad.
Right. And you saw when Joshua dropped
him, the difference in a boxer and a guy
that cuz Francis was like this, he
needed to grab him.
He got flatlined.
And the thing is is that boxers
understand how to faint.
when he gave him that faint, when he
gave him that faint, Francis went
boom. I was like, "Oh my god."
Yeah. And
boxer, a boxer throwing a punch in MMA.
Look, I understand that, you know, they
both hit hard, but boxers, it's just
something about that punch and where
it's coming from. I mean, it's
Shannon, I went train one time in
Oakland when I first started boxing gym.
They hit you with a jab and it's like,
what the hell was that?
Because they know how to punch.
And they sit on everything. Yeah. Boom.
Boom. It's not jab, jab, touch to try to
take you down.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'm just mad in there getting my ass
whooped. I'm like, "Yo, I want I can
beat everybody up in here." I'll start
wrestling every one of you fools. They
like pissed off because the dudes just
putting it on you. They just putting it
on you cuz you there's nothing you could
Why do you fight Brock Brock Lesnar?
The WWE got him. The WWE took him back.
It was That was my golden goose, man. We
had that moment in the ring. I pushed
him. He pushed me. WWE paid him back.
They They were paying Brock like six,
seven million a year, maybe 10,
right? You telling me, Brock, you can go
fight DC and lose or you can come.
Who say you going to lose?
I'm beating Brock Lesnar, man. I was
beating Brock.
That was a big dude, man. Safe coach.
Don't matter, dog. Shay, I was beating
Brock Lesnar.
It was one of the safest fights I could
have had.
I'm telling you, dog. That's the truth.
It's just the truth. I like Brock, too.
He's like, he's a great guy. But
I watch what Kane did to him. I watch
how he would react to getting punched,
And I was going to punch him. He would
have to take me down,
to win the fight. And I can wrestle.
Yeah, but he's not a wrestler. I mean,
he was a wrestler, but he was, but
but if he shoots on me, I'm I'mma make
it so hard for him to get that take down
that by the time he gets it.
He's exhausted. Now I'm up to my feet.
Then you're done. That's why Kane, he
took Kane down. Kane got up, started
kneing him in his face. I saw Brock
recently, he still has that scar under
his eye. Really?
From when Kane kne him in the face. Yep.
Still got that big scar on his eye.
It's crazy. It's crazy. Is it true you
got a scholarship to LSU?
I I got like offers back then, but I had
bad grades and I just was not going to
college to play football,
It was hard to
It was hard for me in the school that I
was in to
First off, there's way too much pressure
on football down there in Louisiana.
And we weren't very good.
But I mean, I was the the all state MVP
defensively. I was pretty much missed
everything in football
because I was a good little linebacker,
right? But I was small, right? And they
were talking about me playing cornerback
or or free safet safety.
I was like, how I'm supposed to tra how
much chase Randy Moss? I mean, you know,
so like I'm not smart,
I didn't really know the difference
between strong safety is more like a
linebacker.
Yes. Yeah.
But I was think but I was thinking I'm
going to be chasing dudes like Randy
Moss cuz he was graduating the same
year. I was like
there's no way.
No, I'm good. Yeah. I was like, I'm g
just go wrestle, man. I'm good. I did. I
I got an offer to go play football.
You was in Hershel Walker's Colonel uh
corner. Yes.
Could Hershel made a career out of that
or he did what he was supposed to do.
Have one fight and move it along.
Shannon, I got to tell you, man.
Is he Was he really the great? He was
the great He's one of the greatest
athletes, wasn't he?
Yeah, he was. Yeah. Shannon, this man
was so strong, but I don't think I've
ever seen anybody like He was very
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had no
flexibility.
Oh, he was even in football.
Yeah. He's stiff. Yeah,
bro. He was so stiff,
but when he hit you Oh, and then he
would like move his feet. He would move
his feet, but they never left the
ground. They never left the ground, bro.
Hersel would be walking towards you like
this. So when this when when this man
would hit you sometime he shock you. You
know how you rub your feet. Yeah.
Sometime H was shocking dudes.
Hey. And then we're in the back. I swear
to God it was the most
Hershel Walker is a different
individual.
Hershel Walker has had some stuff in his
life where it's like his anger,
but if you meet him, you you met him for
Yeah, for sure.
He is the nicest person.
We were all broke back in the day.
Hersha was staying at the
Intercontinental or what was the name of
that hotel?
Downtown San Jose.
No, but it was it was called something
else before. It was a nice one. But
Hershel owned a chicken company. You
know, Hersel owns that chicken.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
One of the biggest ones in the country.
Yes, he does.
But because of that, they service that
that restaurant down there. So Hershel
got free rooms at this beautiful hotel
downtown San Jose. He would feed us all,
but he wouldn't eat. He would eat one
time a day, bro. He would he would eat
soup and bread and some eggs. So, I'm
like, "Yo, this is the nicest guy ever.
Multi-millionaire, rich, nice football
hall of famer."
We got at the ring
or in the hallway to walk and, bro,
something flipped on him. I said, "This
is this this dude is dark." I was like,
"It's a dark son of a gun, bro." He
started talking to himself, talking
about, "I'm going kill this
motherfucker." They don't do talking
about killing this dude.
He to get himself there,
He went there.
I was like, yo, I've heard people like
talk to himself to hyped himself up.
Hershel was on a whole another level. It
was the most intense thing I've ever
seen in my life. And he went out there
and he won. Wow.
He was He was over 40.
He was over 40. Retired from football
for many, many years. Went in there, did
his thing, and won a US won a fight in
Strike Force, which at the time was the
second biggest organization of all time.
But bro, to see him go to that place,
You You'd be like, "Yo, this dude is
crazy." I look back at the other dudes.
I was like, "Are y'all seeing this?
Everybody acting normal." Hers was
talking about killing mother.
Hers about killing people.
Did you ever think about doing WWE?
So, I thought about it right after I was
wrestling, but then it's hard. People
talk about that stuff being fake. Hey,
man. It's scripted.
Yeah. But
it hurts.
Yeah. Oh, those falls hurt. You fall.
You got to throw your arms back.
So, every time it's like it's like
slapping against a uh the ring.
Or when you run the ropes,
those robes they burn you. Like it's
it's it's hard, man. And that's why you
see them all break down like that.
Like they're all like they're all like
messed up. Like their their knees don't
work. They're they're like football
players and us. Y'all got it hard.
Football's hard, man.
The the the wear and tear on the body is
is crazy. And so is MMA in wrestling.
I'm I'm one of the lucky ones. I feel
like I got out pretty clean,
Derrick Lewis.
Yeah. Back beast,
He come in there to do one thing. You
already know. He ain't trying to take
you down. He ain't tried to kick you. He
ain't tried to knee you. He ain't trying
to elbow you.
Trying to knock you out.
He tried to knock you out.
The knockout kick.
That's it.
He got more knockouts than anybody in
the history of the UFC. He hits hard. I
fought him. He hits hard. When he hit
me, I was holding his leg up.
And he just kind of went like this and
it skimmed down my eye. Next day, I woke
up with a big old black eye.
He kicked me. I had knots all in my my
forearms. He He was But he knocks these
dudes out, man. He knows exactly.
Hey yo, did you see him a couple weeks
Did you see his poor wife in there, man?
Did you
Did you see her? He about to cry if he
didn't you see his wife. She was in
there so embarrassed and the camera pans
to her.
I'm in there interviewing this man. I'm
like I'm like this dude Derek about to
say some crazy stuff.
And he go I go what do you who you want
to fight next? Like what do you want
next? He looks over at his wife like
going to be a lot of ground and pound
going. I was like boy. And she got stand
there and try to stay composed knowing
that Derek's out of his mind.
But you were the first man to submitted.
I did. Yeah. I couldn't wrestle. It was
why I fought him. They called me three
weeks before the fight to to fight him,
right? And uh
you like, "Sure."
Easy money.
Yeah. I knew I knew he couldn't wrestle.
I knew
his his uh his cardio.
And if if I can extend him, he would get
But yeah, just if you couldn't wrestle
like I was fighting you.
Yeah. But you got to get I mean you got
to get past those three rounds cuz you
let him get you in the first round.
Yeah. He hit you and knock you out. But
I just shot on him right away.
Right. because he was so inexperienced
with his wrestling
that I like backed him up and just
grabbed his leg.
That's one thing I learned fighting the
heavier guys.
They don't balance well on their feet.
So, I would just kind of move him around
until they fell down.
Wow. Learned something new. Who Who's
the hardest puncher?
What's the hardest punch you've taken?
Who Who hit you hard?
Probably Dan Henderson. That little
dude. He was like he was made of
Hendo. He hit so hard. He He hit me on
He was on his back
and he hit me and he uh knocked out one
of my bottom teeth. I had to go to like
an emergency dentist.
On Labor Day on Memorial Day after he
hit me from the bottom. He hit hard.
Even from in close, he would just
Obviously, there are things that you
can't do, but are there dirty things
that guy, you know, you're not supposed
to eye gouge somebody and you're not
obviously you can't bite, you can't do
certain things, but there's certain
things that guys do that the ref can't
I always had a trick where when I would
get on top of them, I would always cover
their mouth. I would literally try to
smother him.
Damn, DC.
Yeah, I know. Nasty.
Josh Barnett. That's not dirty. is like
I'm just trying to like Josh Barnett
would like always like kind of if you
let him go behind you his hand was going
Yeah. Yeah. Them dudes they they they do
his life they trying his life or death
out there. Shannon his life out there
you like I saw Hey I fought Josh
Barnett. I was trying to take him down.
He was elbowing me. Boom. Boom. Cut me
wide open here. First fight I ever had a
black eye. He needed me in the eye.
cutting my head open.
When I was a kid, I was playing football
with the older kids. One dude closel
line me, broke my collarbone.
Yeah, it was bad in the dark.
I I walked to my mama house cuz I'm
trying to be tough, right? I'm a young
kid. I can't cry. Soon as I saw my mom,
I fall on the ground. They put me in a
cast, broken collarbone.
I fought Josh Barnett. My mom passed in
I fought Josh Barnett, I had won my
first big world title, Strike Force.
I was bloodied, man. My eye was open.
Everything was they put stitches for the
first time. I walked into the hotel and
uh I'm good taking pictures, everybody.
Oh, champ. The moment I saw my mama, I
start crying like a baby, man. I felt
I'm in her lap like a seven-year-old kid
again. Please make me feel better.
Right. That's how nasty he was in there,
dude. He was elbowing me. He was
grabbing me. He was doing everything he
could to just like inflict pain on me.
He does that. Jones does that. Certain
guys just no matter where you are,
they're just trying to hurt you,
And like that's uh Yeah. But you got to
be so wellrounded to do this thing now.
If you aren't, you're screw. Look at
He's a monster.
He's a monster. He's like he's he's one
of the best fighters of all time and
he's only fought eight times in the UFC.
He's he's amaz these guys are amazing.
What does it feel like to knock someone
out? What does it feel like to get
knocked out? Because you I and I know
exactly what you're saying cuz I've been
knocked out and I can't remember
anything. I don't remember driving to
the stadium. I don't remember what I had
to eat. I don't remember anything. I
just remember looking up at the
scoreboard and asking my teammate Rod
Smith. I was like put we call him putts.
I say foots. How do we get the lead?
Cuz I cuz I don't I don't I don't I
don't want to laugh.
No, no, but I'm like how do we cuz when
we I I just remember like we were losing
before this happened and now it's the
fourth quarter and I'm like what happens
if we win this game?
He said, "Boo, we go to the Super Bowl."
I was like, "Yeah, yeah, we go to the
Super Bowl."
But it's a it's a funny feeling
to get knocked out because you really
don't remember anything. Hey, my coach
told me that is bad. I'm laughing
because my coach told me. Was that the
last time you asked? You probably asked
him again.
No, no, that was I was like,
"No, you probably asked him again."
I started I was like I started jumping
up and down the side like, "Yeah, we
cuz we over at 14 with like 3 minutes to
go and we got the ball." So,
this this dude So, I get knocked out,
That was John when he kicked
when John kicked me and he hit me with
the followup shots, right? Only time I
knocked out
I'm crying, right? Yeah.
I go to my corner. I ask my coach. I
said, "What happened?"
He tells me.
I break down crying, right?
Rogan interviews me. As we're walking
out the octagon, I look to him and I go,
"Hey, what happened?"
He tells me, I break down crying. He
told me I did that seven times. He had
to keep explaining it to me. And then
every time he explained it, I would have
the exact same reaction. Like, it was
the first time I had heard that [&nbsp;__&nbsp;]
man. That's bad. Yo, Jenn, that's bad.
He said he told me seven times and then
I'm in the I'm in the ambulance because
they're trying to get me in the
ambulance. I'm I'm refusing.
Finally, I get in the ambulance and I
wake up and I was present like nothing
had happened. I was like, I lost.
They're like, "Yeah,
you lost." I was like, "God damn it." I
swear to God I I woke up and I woke up
and and I'm like in realiz like I lost.
Did Did you not because obviously So how
did how did he set the head kick up?
It was it was it was beautiful. It was
beautiful, man. It was beautiful. He
kept body kicking me. That's what he did
in the first fight, too. And I kept
check. I kept blocking. I kept blocking.
But then in the second round, I was
fighting good. First round, real good.
Second round, real good. So now I'm
feeling good because I feel great. My
cardio's great. Yeah.
Third round. But the whole time he just
kick me in the body. Third time he tries
to kick me in the head. And the third
round is the first one of the first
attempts and I was like, "Nah."
Yeah. Yeah.
Nah. But then he actually gave me one
that looked like it was going to the
And so I did this and you're supposed to
lean, right? You're supposed to kind of
to kind of take some of the impact off.
Well, when I lean, he was not going low.
He was going high.
Caught you.
Boom. right on the side of the head. So
then I started doing the chicken dance,
right? Like you know when your legs
give Yeah.
And this is the this is the this is
where and this is where this is why I
can't stand this dude because somebody
else that's not as good would have let
me off the hook because I was still
there and again that's me football neck
big neck you know short neck can take
most people just fall down from a head
kick like that.
I was still there so I'm like doing this
thing running away from him. Yo, he
kicks my leg to spin me.
Yes, I remember.
So he kicks my leg.
Kick your leg out from
Yeah. And so I spin. Yeah.
It's like that [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] you put the kids
where they go surf.
Then you don't know where you're at.
When I did that, I fell and that was it.
I could not. My body was gone,
But like if I was on my feet, I might
have been able to grab him. I might have
been able to hold him. I might have
shot. I would have done something. But
because he's such a great finisher, he
kicks my leg out from under me. So then
I spin and when I spin, I'm like seeing
all these lights and all of a sudden
your body starts falling. It was like a
kid trying to hit a piñata. It was
crazy, man. Then I fall on my stomach of
all times in my world to to fall on my
stomach. Like fall on your back to where
you could see him coming, maybe get my
feet up to try to block him,
but instead I fell on my stomach
and he jumped on me and started started
finishing. And I I know this from
watching it,
right? So So you watching So you watch
when you lost that fight, you watched it
Not for a long time. I didn't watch the
fight. I uh But it's on the highlights
and stuff,
The UFC don't shield us from the If you
if you lost, you going to see yourself
getting beat at some point,
That's why when him and Stipe fought, it
was the worst. The whole week, I'm just
out there. I was like, damn, did I ever
win a fight? I was just getting beat the
whole time,
It was terrible. I mean that that I mean
you like you said I mean his toolbox the
way he can finish a fight with a elbow
he can submit you
he elbowed me bad
and then that that back that spinning
that spinning back kick got
he coke steepe perfect
poor Steipe man
and and you and he and you he doesn't
telegraph it
well the box the heavyweights are boxing
or wrestling they're not doing all that
you could tell right away when he needs
steep steep was like what is this
yeah what
they're they're kneeing now normally A
guyy's trying to either take me out or
box with me, maybe a couple leg kicks
here and there.
John was hitting him with all kinds of
John hit him with knees, elbows,
spinning kicks.
When he hit him with that spinning kick,
Steipe, you could tell Stipe looked like
a guy that hadn't fought for three and a
half years and was 42.
He looked and he turned on you. I was
like, "Oh, John got him."
But he is very good at setting
everything up. That's why he didn't have
to cheat. He did not have to cheat.
That's where my biggest issue is. Like,
you don't need a cheat. You got all
Keep that. Like, use what you have.
And he always get mad at me. He he going
to be on me now. If it is, oh, I live I
live. The other day he say he live rent
free in my house in my my brain or
something like that. I'm like, man, shut
up. I care about you.
Obviously, you were there when Anderson
Silva was that uh Rockhole or was that
uh uh what
No. when he checked him when when
Oh, that was Chris Weidman.
Had you ever seen Have you ever seen
that before?
cuz it happened again. Another fighter
got checked.
Hey, Chris Weidman checked Anderson's
broke his leg.
Then Chris Weidman kicked somebody
else's leg.
Weidman kicked a guy named Uriah Hall.
Broke his leg. So the same thing that
happened to Anderson, Chris did to
himself. I can't watch it. Did you watch
I watched it. Can you actually watch the
I can't. It looked like his his leg.
Yeah. It like broke half. Yeah.
You watched it. I can't watch it. Even
next to the Oct.
But I I watched it. I I was watching it
live at the time.
But all those replays I was like, how
did it look?
Cuz cuz when you see it, you're like,
damn, that look and then you like you
try to, you know, you know, you try to
put, you know, try to balance yourself
and you just like damn
looked like his leg broke.
dude. I had to ask Rogan in the attic.
I'm like I'm like, did it break? Did it
break? Did it break? They're like, "Oh,
it broke." They was like, "Do not watch
it." I was going to throw up.
I mean, cuz you guys know how to how to
check because it's called, you know, you
check you like
you check the kick. Yeah. You put you
either lean into it or you pick your uh
you pick your your your knee up,
And what they were doing were kicking on
the inside. That's why when you kick on
the inside, they just turn their knee
in. And that if you kick too hard, man,
you break your leg.
That's why I don't kick too much.
Hey, that's why I was out there boxing
just like everybody else.
What's the worst injury you sustained in
a fight?
Um, in a fight
just more damage like facial stuff like
black eye, cut face. I never got hurt
really bad in fights, but in training,
ribs, torn ACL,
uh torn ACL, ribs. I I tore some sort of
a this this ligament in my shin one time
Uh broke broken hand. Like I I couldn't
I couldn't punch. I didn't know how to
punch. Like remember they used to have
this idea that Floyd had like trail
That was me. Like I broke my hand five
times when I started fighting.
Wow. Every time I would land right, I
would I would break my hand. So then I
have a doctor call him. He did a great
job with my uh with this and it never
broke again. He put a plate with like
eight screws because it just kept
breaking. But when knocking someone out,
you don't feel nothing. You literally
don't feel anything if you knock them
out with a punch.
It's like sometimes you feel and it's
like that loud impact.
Yeah. When you land the right way,
sometimes it's like you don't even punch
them. It's like you go right through
but you know it.
Well, they fall. They fall. When I hit
Stipe with that one that put him down to
become the double champ,
I had just I had thrown that punch so
many times
and it just so happened to hit him and
he went down. I could I I didn't even
feel nothing.
Yeah. Like when Usman caught uh the dude
George Naz.
Yeah. Jose Maz. Yeah. when he caught him
his his chin went all the way.
I was like, "Oh my goodness."
Model was mad at me one time because I
they should I was on I was on NFL live
and I said, "Uh, when the mug when you
when you
you called him?"
Yeah, I put him in put him in the
concussion protocol. He got to go in the
tent because his chin went all the way
back there.
He went down bad. That was Kamaru
punched through him and he just
it was nasty.
Camaro looked good coming back. Let me
ask you this. When you saw Anderson
Silva, he could box box a little bit,
but he fought Jake Paul.
See, that's I have a problem with all
that. I don't know how y'all I don't
know how you guys feel about the the
Jake Paul Anderson. The Jake Paul
I was see boxers
boxers that's his age.
Yes, Mike.
I don't think that's asking too much.
No, Mike Tyson.
Yeah, Mike Tyson's
He beat up on Mike. Mike's 60, man. Mike
did make like 27 mill so I get it. Yeah.
60 years old.
I want Jake Paul to fight guys that
he says he wants to fight Canelo.
Canelo fights 154 or 160.
That's one of his best weights. He'll
fight heavier cur. He fought he fought
the guy at uh 175.
Yeah. And got beat. Yeah. But like it's
fight Jake weighs 200 210 215.
Yeah. But I mean so that means he'd be a
heavyweight.
Yeah. Yeah, he's like a heavyweight
now. And he talking about he he says he
wants to fight Anthony Joshua
that he's if he fights Anthony Joshua
all everybody's wish and dream of him
getting finished will come to fruition.
But I I think the thing is is that
he's better now.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You No,
he takes it serious. You can you can
appre you can appreciate that. You can
tell that he spends time in the gym. You
tell that he has serious coaches and
he's taking this craft serious. He ain't
just getting in there and people like,
"Oh, he's just
he's a YouTuber." No, he ain't. He's a
No, no, no, no, no, no.
So Jake Paul's a millionaire.
Jake Paul's not training at the local
YMCA. No,
he's got real coaches on staff. He got
real coach.
He's got high level coaches and he lives
to box now.
He's been boxing seriously now. So, he
should be able to compete.
He's a boxer. He's not He's not that
same kid. That's why I keep telling
those MMA guys, every time they tell me,
"I got a chance to fight uh Jake Paul."
I'm like, "Man, don't do it." Because
he he boxed. That's what he does. He's a
boxer. You don't know how to box. Like
my friend Ben Astrin.
Ben went fought him. Ben should have
never fought him.
Yeah. No.
Cuz he was going to get Ben never could
wrestle. He could never box.
He is a wrestler. Tyron Woodley. I was
so sad when Tyron Woodley kept losing to
him. I love T Wood man. And I was like T
Wood like
Well, you don't see the butt that look.
You don't see them punches, bro. You not
That's not what you
That's not what we do. I can't box these
guys. No. He tried to Jake Paul tried to
uh mess with me for a while until I went
up to him in Orlando. I said, "I don't
play like these kids." I said, "Stop
playing with me." His bodyguard. I said,
"I'm going to slap you, too." I said, "I
don't play like that, man. Don't leave
me alone." I swear to God, I was at the
commentary desk.
I'm sitting there. He in the back making
faces at me. I took my handset off. I
put it down. I got up, walked right to
where he was in the stands. I point
right in his face. I said, "Man, I don't
play. Leave me alone." I said, "I'm not
the children that you messing around
with. I'm not going to play with you.
Leave me alone." His bodyguard, "I ain't
going to do nothing." I said, "I'm going
to slap the [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] out of you, too." Both
of y'all can get it. [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] out. The
security act security UFC security can't
get me. Yeah,
cuz you know, man, come on. We growing
up, man. We don't like I'm not playing.
Everybody don't play like that.
No, man. Leave me alone. Unless you
really want to fight. Jon Jones, I
respect cuz he fights me,
But Leave me alone. Don't I'm not
playing those childish games,
Yeah. Leave me alone.
Do you think you see the guys in MMA go
to fight, go to box
for the money?
For the money.
They do it for the money. They Look,
Can you blame them though?
No. No. No. There's only a select few
people that make the big money in the
It's the God honest truth. I mean,
champions make money.
Lorenzo Fertito was the best. When
Lorenzo Fertito was there, he would do
these discretionary bonuses.
Where they would just give you money. He
had an idea of what he wanted the
champion to make and he would make sure
he got it right.
So when I fought Jon Jones, my contract
was $85,000.
I lost the first time.
On Monday, Dana called me and goes, "You
did a great job. We're going to send you
a check for a million dollars." What?
Swear to God.
85. And then you got
He gave me a million dollars. They gave
me a million dollars. A check from first
time ever made that obviously as a
wrestler. It was the first time I'd ever
made seven figures. They called me and
said, "You did a great job. Here you
go." Then I fought again a few months
later and I had got a new contract,
right? And it might have been 300,000
and then we sold a few hundred,000
pay-per-views and
they called me and said, "Hey, we're
going to give you x amount of dollars to
get you back to a million dollars."
They would do that, man. They were like,
because that's what people don't
understand. Like I know they talk, well
this guy these guys are underpaid, but
it's like when you become a champion and
then you're benefiting the business,
They they take care of you.
And but even even the lowest boxers make
are so low, bro.
Like the low
that makes that make it seem like
everybody making Floyd Mayweather money.
And they're not.
They are not all making that money, bro.
They're making thousands,
right? I mean, they make good look. They
like But like you said,
but the good guys will make good money.
Yeah. What does a guy make that? So
Tank and all them dudes are getting paid
right now. They're in the millions.
But they're they're the equivalent of
the Iliotas,
And the Israel Adosas. They're they're
those guys,
But as you go down
as you go down the card and you go down
the pay scale.
I bet it's all pretty equivalent or very
So yeah, people talk like all boxers
make money. They don't.
You work for the company now and in the
commentary,
but how is it negotiating with Dana as a
or do you did you negotiate managers?
You had managers.
I have managers, but I was always I was
always really good about that.
I would stand on what I believed, you
know. One time I got he he was he was
like, "That didn't happen." I was like,
"But it did, boss." I was like, "Of
course it did, boss." I said, "Uh, you
you we were negotiating my contract when
I first came over and I wanted like a
certain amount of money." Didn't want to
do it. Dana was like kind of throwing a
fit. Lorenzo goes, "It's fine. We'll
figure it out." And by the time I got to
the airport, it was figured out.
Right. And he was like, "That didn't
happen." I was like, "It did." I was
like, "It's not a big deal because I
understand you have to protect your
business, right?
And I have to protect myself as a
business because I have a small window
to happen." But then when I was
retiring, right, Hunter Campbell, who
now does a lot of the stuff with the
guys, he calls my manager and he goes,
"So guys, what do you think? Uh, same as
he made as champ plus pay-per-view."
Like, "Yeah, even though I wasn't a
champ, they still gave me the same pay I
made as a champion
and the pay-per-view."
So, it's like I I have nothing negative
to say because I've had all great
experience.
You had great experience with it.
The worst experience I had was that,
when he said, "I don't want to give you
that." And I was like, "Well, okay, then
I'll just fight and then I won't have a
And then we can negotiate after that."
And they're like, "Uh-uh. We ain't doing
that. We ain't we ain't going to let you
get to Francis,
We ain't letting you get to undefeated,
Heavyweight or light heavyweight with no
contract where other people can start
going, "Hey, we want you."
Right. So then eventually I just resign
with the company.
If Dana were to ever stepped down, would
you run the UFC?
That would be a dream job for anybody.
But of course, I would love to do
something if if they ever if they ever
trusted me with that, I would do the
best job I ever could do because it's
one of the greatest organizations in the
world. It's one of the biggest sports
organizations in the world. Yep.
And they've done such a great job of
building it that
the job itself is just don't don't [&nbsp;__&nbsp;]
it up.
Don't mess it up.
Cuz Dana does what he does is he's so
passionate about it.
Yeah, he is.
That I can't imagine the UFC without
him. But if not,
but D stand on business now.
He stand on business.
You could be his best friend. He going
to get you. He going to put He going to
walk you out the door and say, "Hey,
man. Give me a little Give me another
little get that a little bit. I'm
running out. You can give me a little
small pour right there." Yeah. Hit me
up. Yeah, that's good. Let me get that.
That's pretty good, man.
Oh, it's great.
I'm taking that bottle.
You can take it?
That's coming with me.
No, but we we'll get your address. We'll
send you send them to your dad.
My passed away, but
Oh, my bad. I'm sorry to hear that.
It's okay. But we make sure we make sure
you take care of.
Yeah, you take I'm then I will drink it
in his honor. I'mma do exactly like him.
My pops show home. Yeah.
My pops had them hard days, man. My pops
was working hard.
Well, if you Louisiana, he grew up hard.
Grew hard and working outside. My dad
used to show up,
sit in that truck for two hours
because he knew hard at work got to come
deal with us.
Yeah, it was.
Yeah. He probably had to have couple of
drinks to come in the house.
Yes, he did. Yes, he did. Joe Rogan.
Now, I didn't know a whole lot about Joe
Rogan. I just knew him as the guy that
Fear Factor. So, I didn't know that
he became Joe Rogan.
Yeah. Cuz that's I mean cuz I love Fear
Factor and then they just got too they
just got too ridiculous with it. Me, I
like I can't do this no more. Um it I
mean it was really good. The first
couple of seasons was really really
good. And to see what he's turned into
as a podcaster, but in the MMA in UFC,
he's your Howard Coale.
Yes, he is. He's he's he's very good.
He's I mean he is very very good.
I've never met a person that actually
remembers more than Rogan. We we go to
dinner after the fights.
And uh he'll be talking about events at
UFC 15 and I'm like UFC 15. Was that in
Bro, we at we at 300 now. You talking
about 15?
Yeah. He's like I'm telling you like
this but his memory to recall all these
things and I've never seen anything like
Right. But yeah, and and and Shannon, it
says something when you do a job just
for the love of doing the job when you
don't have to do it,
Joe doesn't have to do UFC.
No, he don't.
With the Spotify thing that he has going
on and everything.
And Dana said that when he first started
doing it, he did it for free.
Yeah. He love
He called He called the fight for free.
like and you know then they worked it
out something later but to just because
he loved the sport so much
and and you know he he fights and
obviously you know he you know he works
at it and uh uh but he does an
unbelievable job.
Yeah, he's tremendous man. I I think he
does a great job of calling the fights
I think that he
and you could tell his passion for it.
And everything. I mean you guys do so
you guys do like I mean hours and hours
of TV a week. Mhm.
You got to love this, too, or you can't
do it. Yeah. And you can feel it. I can
see it in you, too.
I've watched you from afar.
And I've admired how well you've done
and how you've really broke, you've
really broke through the glass ceiling
because there was
there was an idea of who you were
supposed to be at Fox.
And then eventually you said, "This idea
is not it doesn't work for me."
And you became bigger than that idea.
And now it's like so I'm so happy. I
don't really know you well enough to say
I'm proud of you, but I'm happy for what
you've done and what you've accomplished
because you deserve it, man. Hard work
deserves to get uh credit for it. And
I appreciate that.
Let me ask you this. What have you most
learned about money? Cuz growing up, how
you grew up?
Um you know, living off 1,500 bucks a
month and you got a $1,200 rent and then
basically I got to eat for uh the next
29 days I got to live off 150 bucks. Now
that you have you make decent money.
Yep. What have you learned about it?
Money's hard to keep. Money is very hard
to keep. That's what people don't
understand. Money's hard to keep. You
pay a lot. You pay a lot of taxes. You
pay a lot of other things. It just gives
you an opportunity. I feel like money
gives you the ability. One, you're going
to be exactly who you ever wanted to be.
So, if a person's ugly because they have
money, they always were ugly. They just
didn't have the ability to be ugly.
Um, you're gonna be exactly who you want
to be and you have access to more things
that you have. And I also learned that
because you have the ability to pay for
stuff, most things are free.
Isn't that the craziest thing?
That's the crazy thing. People have the
most money, they get the most stuff for
When you were living off that 1,500, you
want to go buy, you want something, you
got to pay for it. But when you have the
money that you have and you can pay for
it, everybody's like, "Could you please
just take this and I just want to see
you have it? Hold it. Shannon, could you
just hold it?"
And you're like, "Okay."
And most times you're like, "I'd rather
pay for it instead of hold it for you."
Like it's like it's just it's just that
but also just that it gives you a free
it's it's it's freedom. It really is
just freedom. Like
it's it's the freedom to to do things
and take care of the people that you
love more than anything. I bought my mom
a house.
That was one of my greatest
accomplishments.
To have her
get a big house. Right. And then my mom
was a house cleaner whenever I was
growing up. So she would take us to
these people's houses
and while she worked uh the people were
beautiful. One family I still remember
to this day called the Low family in
Louisiana, Lafayette.
She'd go Monday and Wednesday there.
They gave us a car. They gave us like a
brand new car. Just this wonderful
family of people. I had I made sure she
had house cleaners when she was older.
So instead of going to clean people's
houses like those are the things that
I'm so proud of in my life, in my career
that you were able to do for your mom
to do for your mom. I mean, you know
that you do.
Absolutely.
It's like there are people in your life
that mean more than anything and that's
uh you take care of them.
Finding a mate
obviously wrestling, you know, ain't it
like they coming to L like they beat and
down your door say, "Oh yeah, I want I I
want to wrestle cuz it's not like you
know, you're not on television. It's
it's a hard job. It's a grimy job. Uh
you're moody. Some days are better than
others." When you found a wife, how did
you know?
I've had multiple. Oh, so yeah, you
can't you can't really I'm not the best
in love.
You know what I and and and and I tell
someone was telling me this the other
day. They said, "Shannon, the best and
worst decision." When you made the best
decision, did you know it was the best
decision at the time? No.
When you made the worst decision, did
you know it was the worst decision at
the time? No.
No. You just live with the decisions you
make. That's all you can really do. But
you uh
part of being great is being selfish.
You got to be.
And when you're so selfish, it's hard
for relationships to work.
Absolutely.
And I think that is like probably the
thing that athletes need to worry about
the most because
got to find somebody that understands
Yes. And not many people do.
They don't.
It's really hard.
Everybody say they can be, oh, I
understand. Everybody can be second
until they actually have to be second
until also until everybody can be second
when they don't have.
The moment there's a comfortability to
it's like, wait a minute, everything
that we hoped would happen has now
Now worry about, but it's not done yet.
The job's never done.
No. I feel like for high thinkers like
you and myself
to just retire,
could you imagine that as life?
You die. Some a part of you would die.
And so for me it's like I need to be
chasing career. I need to be
I got to work.
I'm a worker.
Got to work. It's what I was put on this
earth to do.
But that can be seen as selfish.
It is.
And but that's the
that's the only way you can become
great. It's the only way
there there. And and and greatness is
not a sometime thing.
It's an all the time thing.
It's an all the time thing. You don't
get to be great just when you want to be
great in front of people.
You got to be willing to do that work
behind closed doors.
Yeah. But you don't never know anything.
Your biological father was shot and
killed by his second wife's
Yep. Yep.
father in self-defense.
you remember that? Oh,
yeah. I remember
I remember uh
watching Thanksgiving Day of 1986.
We're at my aunt's house, Marjorie.
We're all sitting down. We ate. We're
all watching The Color Purple. And uh my
mom getting a call and she goes crazy.
It was hysterical.
I was a seven-year-old kid. I had no
idea what was going on.
my uh then they told her your dad's just
been killed.
Your you know Joseph has just been
killed. Your ex has been killed.
She goes crazy.
She has to sit down now and tell me that
my older brother is 12 years older than
me. Imagine a 19year-old kid learning
that his father's been killed.
I'm at seven just
crying because I don't have the greatest
memories. I don't have the I don't have
the memories of my dad
like the night like your brother does.
Like my brother does. But I also don't
have like Shannon, I can retain one real
vivid memory of my father.
And that was we were at a truck stop
because he drove trucks. That's it.
That's the only real vivid memory I have
of my father.
my dad Percy has had already moved into
my life when I was three. Right.
So I'm four years into that relationship
with my mother.
And it was just sad, man. I remember
going to that funeral and
I see my dad in that casket. He's got
two families, right? Because while
my mom is not with him anymore, they
have kids.
Her reaction told me that she still
loved your dad.
I don't think they ever fall out of
love. It's like something that they
don't really let go of, especially that
first one. Mhm.
Um, but my mom's sitting there with my
dad and let me tell you, you I I knew my
mom still loved my dad. One time, I
don't know if my dad I don't quite
understand if my dad was cheating. I
don't know what it was, Shannon, but my
mom took the car at a four-way stop. The
other woman was driving the other car.
She hit her. What? She hit her. My mom
was an angel. You better hold You
better. My mom was an angel. Your mama
was an agent. She play
she play buba cars in real cars though.
Cop said why'd you hit her? She goes
that's my car too.
This my car. That's my car. I want a
record. I can record. I said oh my god.
She said but it was a little red light.
It was a bump.
But it wasn't like a hard hit but she
like she hit her.
But yes. But yes. So yes. She must have
still loved my dad. But yeah it was it
was it was awful. You mentioned that
your stepfather intervene came in your
life at a very young age.
What did you learn from him?
Everything.
Percy Benis was man he was the best. He
was the best. He uh
he worked so hard. He made decisions him
and my mother that made me appreciate
them more than I I don't know if I ever
could appreciate anyone in my life. When
we were like
seven, eight years old at that time when
my dad got passed, they uh they decided
not to take government assistance
anymore. We want to make it on our own.
We were struggling, but they did. They
took no help. They just made it on their
own. Then they bought their first house
together. And then I watched that man
get up in the morning and he would go
and work for the city of Lafayette. It
was hot, man. It was 95, 100°, 100
degree humidity. You know what
Louisiana's like?
He would he would take the lime and make
the baseball fields and he would cut the
fields and the grass
and he would come home at 5:30, eat real
And he would get a a bath cuz we didn't
have a shower,
jump in his truck and go to a pizza
parlor and wash dishes to make an extra
60 bucks every time he did that. And he
did that constantly. And then when he
when I got old enough, I realized more
what he was doing. He when the days that
he wasn't going back to uh there, he was
going to the cemetery and he was cutting
it and he was weed eating next to the
grapes to make more money. So when I got
old enough, he started taking me with
him and he's like, "You get $35 a
month." So every time you do this, I
guess I made eight or $10, right?
Because it would take us a little bit of
time. I learned to work. He taught me to
work. And I think by him teaching me to
work, um it is
defined my life. It's defined my life. I
I don't
I was the captain of the Olympic
wrestling team
and it's because I worked hard. They saw
me. They saw me and said, "I want this
guy to lead our team."
Is that the type of father you are? You
try to be what Percy want to do to your
own kids.
That's what I try to be for my kids. I
try to be present and show them I'm
working, man. I'm making a life for you
guys that can be and I hope that you see
and appreciate what I'm doing,
Because while
I don't see the struggle, they don't see
the struggle that I saw, they do see
that their dad is willing to just
I took my daughters to a photo shoot I
did for Monster Energy the other day
and they were like, "Dad, you work
hard." I was like, I wanted to give you
just kind of see what what dad does when
he gets up at 5:00 a.m. and he's back
home by 6:00 to make sure you guys have
Right. It's like those types of things,
they they mean the world to me. My dad
was the best.
You lost your a daughter.
I did, man.
To 18 wheeler accident.
Yeah, that was that was the worst. That
was the worst. I've had a lot of things
happen in my life that that
um I try not to let define me. Like I
try like I try not to let like certain
things define me like the bad.
But yeah, that was the worst. I uh I was
23 years old. I had a daughter named
Kayan Emory.
And uh
we were in college or just finishing
college. So
her mom was from Colleen, Texas.
And they were driving home to see her
parents and uh but her car didn't have
air conditioning.
And she was like, "I'm going to put my
kid in the car with my friend."
Because they have a newer car,
Yeah. And it got rear ended by
18-wheeler. That was the worst, man.
If she was with her mom,
she would have been fine. But
we make these decisions at times that we
think are the right decision. And
it has killed her mom's life.
I was You know what, DC? I was about to
ask you. I bet she beat herself up.
She I should have I should have just
rolled the window down. She should have
been with me.
Yep. It her mom's life is
It hadn't been the same, has it?
No. That girl, that girl was on a track
team at Oklahoma State where I went to
school and she had such a big future and
now it's like she's at home taking care
of her mother. That that losing that
kid, losing our kid, like it killed her.
I was able to
I was able to spin it and say that every
time I wrestle, every time I fight, I
have an angel sitting on the cage to
watch over me.
Her mom was never able to do that. It's
sad, man. Yeah,
that was the worst thing that's ever
happened to my
Because as parents, we expect our kids
to bury us.
We don't expect to bury a child.
Not that young.
Not that young, man. She's three and a
half months old.
So like to put her in a casket.
Yeah. That [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] sucks. Yeah. I even
think just thinking about it like it
sucks. Has it changed the relationship
that you had with subsequent quid kids
that you hold them tighter that you like
you realize how just how fragile life is
that tomorrow is not promised even 3
hours from right now isn't promised?
No, I know. Yeah, it's it's uh it is
it's bad to the point that Shannon at
times you got to like you have to I have
to like
I have to like consciously try not to be
as much of a like a helicopter parent.
I'm trying to like because I know how
important it is for him to experience
things. But it is scary like my my son
is getting older now. Like
I just started I let him ride his bike
to the barber shop now to get a haircut.
That was something I could have never
Like never.
You talking about a bicycle or motor
bike or motorcycle?
Like one of those electric
electric bike. Okay. Electric. Okay.
So I let him but he but I always but I I
make him put his location on the moment
he leaves the house. Location on.
So I'm trying, dude. But yeah, it's
hard. It it really has uh it really has
changed me in terms of parenting.
You try. You try. It's important. Like
I did a lot growing up. I had a lot of
and it it it
it it gave me a little bit of like
street smarts and ability to adjust and
make my way around life.
You I mean pro people probably wouldn't
know this about you, but you've had a I
mean you've had a lot of death in your
family. Your grandmother, your cousin,
you lost a child at a very young age.
ask me because they know how close I am
with my grandmother. They will say,
"Shannon, how did you get over?"
I say, "You never get over it." No,
you just get better at dealing with it.
How have you been able to get better at
dealing with
loss? Uh well, at 20 when you lose a kid
at that age, right, like you feel like
nothing ever is going to feel worse.
But I've I've done I've managed to
I've managed to learn how to take those
things and try to make them push me
forward. Okay. So,
cuz my daughter like I had never made a
United States team
after my daughter passed I made six in a
Swear to God. The my daughter passed in
June or in May of uh
You had a bigger purpose.
May of 20. Yes.
That you didn't know.
Yes. And from I by by all this I
wrestled in the world championships for
the first time
then the Olympic Games and all the way
My mom
when she passed uh a couple years ago
obviously I don't do anything
competitive anymore
but in terms of my media career has just
gotten bigger. Yeah. Because I work
harder now because I know that even
though I don't have to provide for her
in the way that I did before
I still need to work
because she was part of that work.
Yes. I want to do more TV because she
watched everything, right? So even
though she's not there watching now,
like I know she watched it all. So I try
to uh
I try to spin it. That's the only way
cuz otherwise it cripples you.
It does.
It really does [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] you. Like you and
like I've heard stories about you and
your grandmother and it's like and how
special a lady she was to you.
but yeah, you don't you don't ever get
over losing somebody you love that much.
You can't.
this cutting weight thing. You said that
in this Thanksgiving
you weighed 257.
And basically 4550 days you were down to
Obviously that's very taxing on the
Yes, it is.
Very taxing to cut that kind of water
weight cuz that's not a that's not all
just you know good weight.
And you went to renal failure at one
time, right?
I did at the Olympic Games. Yeah. But I
wasn't that big at the time. I was just
in wrestling. I didn't have the access
to the I didn't have the access or the
resources.
I couldn't have done that without my
I had like Tyler Minton
uh was working for me at the time.
He uh
every meal, every meal, every drink, he
would feed me, then he would write it
He would feed me, then he would write it
down. I got to drink a kombucha every
day. That was it. outside of water,
that's all I had,
And some sort of uh like electrolytes
stuff to make sure I wasn't cramping
when I went to the uh the cage to train.
But outside of like that, I had water
and eat every meal.
Here you go. And at the right times when
I was wrestling,
I would I would eat until Wednesday and
then I just would not eat until I
weighed in on Friday or Saturday. I
would go three days without anything.
Rob DeWalis really still does that. the
champ at 135.
He just will not eat.
I don't I don't You don't have to do it
that way anymore.
You don't. He's got money. But yeah, I
would uh
my my kidneys quit on me at the Olympic
End up in the hospital. I wasn't a
because they don't let you take
diuretics, does it?
Can't take diuretics. Can't take IVs.
Can't do nothing. If I could have took
an IV after weigh-ins, I'd have been
fine. Right.
Right. It was right before the Olympic
Games that they did away with IVs. I
didn't want to cheat.
I didn't want to cheat my body. Dude,
there it was. That was a
What's What's the most weight you've had
to cut?
by by design,
if I was fighting on
if I was fighting on Saturday
when I showed up to Vegas on Tuesday, I
probably was like 220. if it was good.
But I remember one time I
in New York against Rumble in Buffalo, I
was like 231 on Sunday
before the fight on Saturday the next
231. Yeah.
And you got to get down to 2 205.
Yeah. But I was like I was heavy. So I'd
go run, lose like 5 lbs. You lose a lot
of weight, Shannon.
And you drink a lot of water,
Those these nutritionists are so good at
manipulating weight now.
Yes. You have no idea. So like
if I'm like 217, 218, 220, like 220.
Oh, you're a sweet spot. You in your
wheelhouse
because because now I've got that with
two gallons of water in a day.
Right. That's 16 lbs at minimum. So by
the time I get in that sauna, I'm like
it all comes off.
But it's only for a short period of
Like I'm at 204 and a half or maybe an
When you re when you re
hydrate. Yeah. What are you What are you
going back up to? You going to rebound
to what? 220 225.
When Jon Jones for when I fought Jon
Jones and I was in peak physical
condition.
There was nothing I could do to get over
Like I mean literally trained there at
for the last four weeks of camp cuz I
was so locked in.
When I fought Rumble Johnson, I weighed
231 on Saturday night when I fought him
the next day.
I weighed 205.
Yeah. 20 I gained 26 pounds overnight.
That's too much. I felt so sluggish and
But yeah, I've cut a lot of weight. I
use you lose like 10 pounds an hour
though when you do those weight cuts.
Do you feel that your your height I mean
because like you little but probably a
tick under six foot tall.
I'm five I've gotten shorter. I'm like
510 on a good day. 510 and a half. I've
I've shrunk. Shannon, have you shrunk at
all? Have you gotten shorter at all?
Yeah, I think so too. I think as we get
older we we we shrink it. I I believe I
have. But but when you when you you you
like for
I would think somebody your size your
height would be ideal is ideal for
wrestling.
Oh wrestling
because you you because you got a short
torso but you got long legs
compact. Yeah.
And I'm good at getting close. Once I
get once I get if I get they say I'm
If I get close to you, I'm sticking to
you like you stuck in a fly trap. Like
seriously, it's like
So you're trying to close the distance.
Oh, if I got close, you're in trouble.
If I can grab you by the head, I'm
punching you uppercuts. If I can grab
your leg, then you're really in trouble
because I had a thousand ways to finish
a takedown.
The moment I got your leg,
you're in a lot of trouble.
Because I'm either gonna move you here,
left, right, up, down.
It's all subtleties. It's the same thing
like how So like
Shannon, I could I could actually try to
guard you right now and I could not.
Cuz even if you might not be able to run
as fast as you did, right, you going to
give me something in the shoulders or
something in the eyes. You going to get
some separation.
Correct. That's me and wrestling. I'm
just like here, here, here, here,
and they get lost.
Do you like It's It's funny like when
you grab somebody here cuz I'm watching
these boxes and you watch him close up,
he'll throw a punch and he put his hand
up because he know what's coming and
he'll do this and he'll throw that. Oh,
he'll do this and he'll do that. So, you
know, like if I got this, I know what
he's going to do.
Absolutely. I'll I'll manipulate you to
do what I want you to do.
Yeah. I'll manipulate you. That's why
like my takedown offense, I think I
might have landed 50% of my takedowns.
They're like, "Dude, you only landed
40." Like, "Yeah, but the first few
aren't designed to take you down,
They're to set you up for number four,
five, and six.
When I really want to get you down,
when I really want to get you down, then
you get up in the air, I flip you or I
trip you or it's like, yeah, it's like
it's all setups."
You mentioned boxing was your first
love, though.
Yep, I did. Cuz it's all I knew. It's
what we knew. Like they would watch my
uncles all watch the wild war the sports
every weekend and we'd watch like George
Foreman clips and Muhammad Ali clips and
Mike Tyson.
So it's like we're watching this
greatness and it looks like us,
That is where the difference was.
You watch that greatness and it's like
wow this dude looks like he could be
where I'm from
and he's making he's the man,
He's a superstar. That's what drew me
into boxing
because every story was about a kid from
a tough neighborhood.
He was from Michigan. He was from
Louisville, Kentucky. He was from like
just all these places. Yeah.
The main streets like wait a minute,
this looks very familiar.
And look at him today, right?
So yeah, it it just drew me in like
Bud and Canelo.
That's a tough fight. I saw Bud
recently. He's big.
Bud bigger than you think. He's stronger
than you think.
Strong, too. Your bud son is ridiculous.
We had Wrestlemania right up the street.
He got a belt. He walked past me and he
was looking at me the whole time. He
looked at me said, "You the wrestler. I
knocked you out on UFC." I was like,
"Bo, you crazy." When he crazy, Bud told
me he had to whip him. Bud said he went
to Sean uh what's his name? Sean
Crawford. Sean Taylor. Sean uh Sean
Sean Porter.
Sean Porter. Bud say Sean Bud say that's
him. went to Sean Porter said, "My dad
knocked you out." Sean Porter had to
call him and be like, "Man, your son's
crazy." Buzz, I had to spank him.
He crazy. But yes, he's bigger. It's a
big time fight. Canelo better have his
game ready. Yeah, because if not, he
going to get beat by Bud.
Yeah, Bud. I mean, like I said, Bud B I
mean, Bud walks Bud fought at, you know,
last fought at, you know, Junior
Middleweight at 154, but Bud walks
around at like 180.
He's big, man. And he's tall, too.
he's very tall. He looked big. I saw him
inside the uh the Apex training. Yep. He
looked big. You went watch him train,
I uh No, we did a we did a interview
with him and but he I say he's he's
stronger than you think.
He's stronger than you could tell.
Yeah, he's stronger than you think.
Got his hands full.
He does.
You were bullied as a kid. Is that why
you got into wrestling and and fighting
because you were bullied? You're like, I
ain't taking this issue no more.
So, I was bullied bad, Shannon.
Like this guy used to beat me up all the
time. He would beat me up for no reason.
It was like no reason to fight me. He
would just pick on me. If they they
could have three other kids fight, he
would show up to watch the fight. Then
once that fight was over, he's like,
"Should I might as well give me one
until they get a dog."
I was scared, too. I was so scared of
him. And then I I learned to wrestle.
Once I got him, it was over, man. Right.
Once I got him once, it was over. But
yeah. Yeah. It gave me self-defense. I
think wrestling is so important for kids
because then you learn to defend
yourself and also it gives you a
confidence. I got this academy in my my
in Gilroy, the Daniel Cory Wrestling
Academy. Kids walk in and they're
hunched over looking like scared, right?
Cuz the ones that have been doing it for
a while have this intensity about them.
They're strong. They're confident,
6 months later, they're like
walking in with some I'm like, "Okay,
this what I need." That's what wrestling
gives you. I I think it's the best.
Right. Have you ever been arrested for
street fighting?
One time I got arrested in college when
I was a freshman. I punched a guy, man.
What do you do?
So, I went to a junior college in
and uh
one of the biggest mistakes that young
black men make when they go to different
places is they almost try to recreate
themselves.
You can be a great kid, but you will
portray yourself as a gangster or a bad
guy, right?
Because you want people to not only
respect you, you want to make sure you
fit in and they kind of fear you a
little bit. Yep.
It's like very important. So I did that
and I'm at this party and we go to this
party and the guy comes out. It's his
house and he starts talking and he said
something that I viewed as disrespectful
when he came charging towards me. So I
punched him, bro. He he I don't know if
his jaw was like super like loose
cuz he he went he went to
he went down and his jaw broke really
So blood's like everywhere. We run off
me and all my wrestler friends. The cops
come to get us. I we're in Kansas. I was
like, "Oh man, we saw I saw this Mexican
dude do it and run away." They said,
"Nah, man. It was you.
It was you, Eric.
Try to put it off."
I tried to put on a Mexican dude, man. I
was like, "Oh, they ain't got many brown
people out here. They ain't got many
brown people out here." They said, "No,
it was you." They put me in jail. I was
crying, dude. Then they put they put me
in jail on a Friday night, Shannon. And
in those little towns
Oh, you don't get till Monday.
And then once Monday come, they got 72
hours to see you. Yeah, man.
They kept me in jail till Wednesday.
I was crying. My mom actually to pay to
pay to get me out, she had to take like
put it up against her house.
To get me out of jail, she put her house
on the line as a as counter for the uh
for the bail.
For the bail.
Yep. And then I was like, "This woman
won't do anything for me. I'm the one
that messed up."
I ran her phone bill up, calling her
every day. Thousands of thousands of
dollars. They ain't had nothing to pay
that. But she answered it every time.
That's why she was the best to me.
Everybody like, "Oh, you love your mama
more than you'll love anybody in the
world." I was like, "You saw what she
did for me."
She She said she was the best.
You tried some everything. You sold
drugs as a kid.
I You tried to
Shannon, I was a bad drug dealer.
What? So what? So
Shannon, you don't want to hear this
we made hor we made fake drugs one time.
Oh, look. share a weed with.
So when you cut grass and just put
This was when I was a kid. No, no, no,
no. Back when I was growing up, it
wasn't weed. It was crack.
I tried to sell crack. Shannon, I was
broke. I needed $20.
Bro, you don't know how to cook?
I don't know how to cook. I don't know.
I don't know nothing about it. But
listen what we did, though. We took some
uh wax.
And put or gel on it cuz I guess that it
must numb the face or something. One of
my friends told me that one. He was
Yeah. So I gave it to the drug. I gave
it to the dude who gave me the money.
He start
He look up. I took off running.
I took off,
man. He called me, man. I running back.
I gave out. There you go, man. You got
Bad down. You You done ate the crack
now. You You out of this.
That was the last time. That was the
last time I ever tried some stupid [&nbsp;__&nbsp;]
like that. I was like, man, this is
sports for me. It was bad. Could
a boxer ever be the MMA fighter in a
street fight?
No. No. They would get taken down. It It
would happen too fast. I saw James Tony
fight Randy Couture.
James Tony was one of the slickest, best
boxers of all time.
He tapped without actually tapping
Randy. He just waved at the ref like,
"Save me."
That's what happens when boxers fight.
The baddest man on the planet The
baddest man on the planet is a mixed
martial arts fighter.
Nothing else. in terms of hand-to-hand
Yeah. The baddest man in on the planet
is the UFC heavyweight champion every
time. Unless Francis Andu is out there
fighting for someone else,
Then there's a chance that he's the
baddest man on the planet.
There's a chance it might be somebody
He might beat whoever we have because
he's that good. But
if not, it's either Tom Aspenol,
Francis, Ganu, or Jon Jones right now.
Those are the baddest men on the planet.
Nobody else. we come back and have a
conversation five years, 10 years from
What's DC doing?
Uh, probably the same thing. Probably
doing the same thing. Working UFC
fights. I love my job.
I love calling fights. I think I have
the best job in the world.
Uh, podcasting, doing television. Same.
Cuz I don't think that right now uh
I don't think that right now I'm willing
to stop you. Like we said earlier,
you're a worker. I'm a worker.
I just might be living in the town
wherever my son or my daughter goes to
college. I just can't let it go. I told
my daughter the other day, if you I
said, "Pick a school close and I'll pay
everything."
She wants to get far away. She want
you thinking of colleges yet? She goes,
"What? No." She goes, "Dad, I'm 13." I
go, "Could you go to Cal?" I like, "Stay
close." I go, "I'll pay you rent. I'll
give you a stipen. I'll do everything."
She was like, "No, you don't have to.
You're you're good."
You want to get away from my ass.
My man.
Daniel Cormier.
Yes. You're the man.
Is it Cormier or Cormier?
That was good. All my life. Been
grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle.
Paid the price. Want a slice. Got to
roll the dice. That's why. All my life
I've been grinding all my life. All my
life. Been grinding all my life.
Sacrifice. Hustle. Paid the price. Want
a slice. Got to roll a dice. That's why
all my life I've been grinding all my
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